Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

Ok, this is my mod of oil pump, after looking at the other mods of oil pumps.

the two part shaft has not been looked at as far as i know, to me that is the upper pump problem, so i used a full lengh coupling goes all the way down ,and as far up as allowed by main bearing,

but, the upper shaft dia is smaller the lower shaft, so, about .007 shim stock will snug the upper shaft in coupling

the lower part of pump has the plate which shaft goes into it, that was already done..

when you join to pieces of anything together you need to overlap the joint by a certain,amount that joint to me starts the wobble, that wears out the shaft ,,pump body fit. and you start to make air...

well this is my take , now to get engine in and test, the alignment from dist. should be straight, so that shaft should not have to work like a u-joint......

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The OEM coupling acts as a universal joint by DELIBERATE AND NECESSARY DESIGN!!!!

The upper wear of the PI pump is because PI does NOT rebuild the pump. They only add the lower plate WHICH MEANS that ANY WEAR.whetsoever in the pump remains in the pump.

Eleminating the u-joint effect as u have done will most likely cause a binding and or make instalation of the pump to the engine impossible.

I agree with PackardV8 and suspect that elimination of the coupling effect may be a mistake. Problems with installation may not be the only issue, the coupling is there no doubt to accommodate any stackup of machining tolerances and without it I'd be concerned about rapid wear somewhere along the line from the cam gear on down to the pump. I'd be interested to hear what Jack Vines has to say about it. Just think about all the machining processes involved from the distributor body all the way down to the oil pump housing - if each process had a tolerance of only 0.001" and they all stacked up cumulatively, it would amount to quite a bit, and this was no doubt the reason for the coupling. If just by coincidence or luck they all negated one another then your plan would be OK.

Hate to disagree. .but have to on this. What's. Easier. To attach. Something. That. Moves or is fixed....on the dist. That shaft wobble is going to wear. Out the. Dist. Bushings too.. i believe i am right on this..that ...shaft wobble at the. Coupling. Is wearing. Out the pumps. I have a bushing at top of pump. .which the Coupling. Turns in, i am going to do a test fit ..since engine. Is out. Drop dist. In. And pump. See how i t fits. Look at port. Dons picture. # 4...shaft leaning over...can't. Tell me that shaft was running. True.... it in my book caused it..caused. That worn. Spot on shaft. And wore out dist bushing, s..and the pump..

I think packard designed. The pump. On a friday night at a bar.. a beer design. ...would you two piece. A crankshaft? ?

Riki is always outside the box and that's how we progress. Only way to know for sure how his modification will work is put it in service and run it to failure and compare the lifespan with the OEM control.

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Somewhat agreeing with Keith and Owen, OEM engineers seldom design in extra pieces, extra machining, extra assembly. If it's there, there's usually a reason.

Bit of history. The Kettering Gen I OHV8s, Cad, Olds, Stude, Packard and Gen II Chevrolet all used tang drive oil pumps.

When the Gen III V8s come along, '58 Ford FE and Mopar, '64 Olds, '74 Cad, they all used hex shaft drive oil pumps. That the tang drive was abandoned might suggest it wasn't the best or most economical.

Since the Mopar has the drive gear on the intermediate shaft instead of on the distributor shaft, there is a bronze bushing in the block to support the intermediate shaft. On the Packard V8 currently under construction, I'm investigating if such a bronze bushing might be of any benefit at the top of the Packard intermediate shaft.

FWIW, I bought a pallet of miscellaneous Packard V8 parts from a well-known Chicago shop. In there was a box of oil pump parts. By reverse engineering, I discerned how he had been remanufacturing the Packard V8 oil pumps.

He was buying the then-available Cadillac oil pump rebuild kits from Melling. The gears are identical to the Packard, but the shafts are .005" larger diameter and shorter. He would bore out the Packard pump driveshaft hole, press in a bronze bushing, make a Packard shaft .005" larger, bore out the idler shaft hole .005", press everything together.

The only way I'd do it differently is use a longer bronze bushing or an iron bushing. There are several Melling kits still NIB, but since most want the Olds conversion, I doubt I'll do any more Packard pumps. However, if one wants to keep his vacuum pump and have the best Packard pump possible, PM me and we'll discuss.

If I did these again, I'd investigate how to broach a shaft for a female hex so I could use the same style shaft I make for the Olds conversion.

jack vines

Riki, regarding the "Friday night in a bar" design, the pinned wobble joint isn't unique to the V8 or even unique to Packard for that matter, it was used on the 282, 288, 327, 359 engines and I believe also on the 245 and 257 engines, but with a difference. On those engines the cam gear drives the oil pump and not the distributor so the pinned joint is on the distributor, not the oil pump. And those engines don't eat oil pump shafts or distributor bushings; I'd expect the largest reason for distributor shaft bushing wear is failure to lubricate.

The shaft coupling design spans many numerous engines across many DECADES AND mfg'ers. Used in SBC FROM 55 thru at least 1978.

as always, thanks, for the input, and i hate to disagree,,but i do,

if i could i would put the chrysler bushing in too, only 10 bucks, and i would make a one piece shaft,,,

but , as with my bronze cam bearings,,,,, as jack said,, till it fails, in my book,,that;s an IF<,, on the pump..

we will see, cause this car is going to be my daily driver,

dave, as we know with the 55-56 there is something wrong, with this pump,, going back to port dons picture #4, i have a shaft just like it, in order to wear like that the shaft had to be cocked,,and nothing wrong with the inside of dist, gear. and look at the shaft leaning over, its loose as h,,l

with the electric motors I have made for my trains, if i get the armature shaft a little off, it vibrates like a sob. and that's a one piece shaft, now have a loose joint, forget it,

all thanks for the info, nothing will change my mind on this, that coupling is the problem, along with no upper shaft suppport,

what jack said about having shaft go into a base, that will solve a lot, besides a one piece shaft,

Packard as great of engineers as they were, they were out to the bar on this pump,,,,,

Here will be my set up, that is jack v, pump body with long bushing,

shaft tool steel, 1/2 inch, i messed up on tang, 20 thou to small, mill got away from me. also have to turn down the tang dia. dist gear slot is under 1/2 inch, i did buy the chrysler tower bushing, but don't think i need it,

so this is my fix for oil pump, we will see how is goes,

the shaft is 11 inches long, the shaft in picture will be for show and tell, since i messed up tang,

you also have to mill slot for key for gear. that is 1/8th inch

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oil pump ready for assy.

bushings dist. top bushing top, another packard why, i can see the large hole for wick in fill tube, but on the oppiste side they have a hole the size of the bottom bushing, the bushings do have grooves ,,so oil can drop down to lower bushing. how can that big hole hold oil?,, 1/8 inch with grooves seems to me would hold better.

the dist shaft,, these could be made by cnc lathe ,,,whip them right out..

getting that plate off is a b, it is on there..

the lower bushing, my shaft down there is worn, and another a got ,is worn there, so it was not getting oil, enough oil,,

maybe a seal on the bottom, ?, but if too much oil was on shaft that would cause problems too.. a relief hole above bushing to throw out excess oil?

i do not have a small bushing puller, so i had to push the bushing all the way down the dist. pushed both out,

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