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V8 wrote

Been my motto for years as well. Am convinced there isn't a politician that hasn't been bought in one way or another by the time he has enough support to be elected and paid for by end of term--or first post election fundraiser. I'd go it one further and say check their financials going in and coming out. An increase that couldn't be explained by normal expectations, throw em in jail.

American industry famously takes a very short-term view of the future, most often the view isn't much beyond the next 2 quarters financials. When longer range plans are made, it's rare that companies have the will power to stick it out for the longer haul. This, plus the well deserved reputation of not that many years back that American cars are poorer quality has lead to an ingrained belief among many that only foreign cars offer quality and I don't think Ford, GM and least of all Chrysler have the will or the assets to embark on what would be a very long program to win back reputations of quality. Now that doesn't mean there aren't some really quality U.S. cars out there, my 2008 Lincoln MKZ is I believe a really fine car more than competitive with many of it's peers.

I'm approaching 70 and am normally very conservative in investing, though I'll admit to making some nice bucks in trading common stocks in the last 10 days. And the time to buy in is when others don't want to, but you've also got to be able to see light at the end of the tunnel. I'm too risk-adverse to consider GM, Ford, or for that matter an airline stock or bond these days and I wonder it what form they'll survive the next decade. GM as a foreign-owned maker of pickup trucks and Corvette? Ford gone? Jeep a Nissan label?

Just wondering how much of your Lincoln is actually made in US-not assembled but made. I have no idea but with all the problems and outsourcing, I would guess maybe half.

Other industries are in the same condition although not quite as bad or have already gone over. I work in the medical imaging field and when I started almost 40 yrs ago, there were 6 major US companies with a complete product line and several minor or limited market players. Today, there is to my knowledge, 1 US label and 3 or 4 minor. Everything else is foreign owned, branded & manufactured. The ironic part is there are many buyers of that US label who go in thinking they are buying American, but in reality, almost all of it is made and assembled overseas. That division is partly foreign owned but still has the magic label.

Most of our companies failed or were done in by the usual high labor and less than spectacular quality. We did not innovate or provide value for dollar, and the foreign companies (including the one I work for) cleaned our clock. I just have the feeling the car mfgs are going the same way sooner rather than later.

IIRC, the MKZ is about 75% US-sourced components, though it is assembled in Mexico at I believe a Mazda facility (partly owned by Ford, isn't it?).

75% would be more than I expected but possibly so. Ford does own part of Mazda, but there was another article yesterday that they are shopping their piece of it around to raise cash.

I really resent Owen's and H-56's comments. I think they should be thrown off this forum. We do NOT need to hear their attacks on our charming "American" auto industry. If they keep up their "broken record" of critisizing our "American" auto industry, someone might listen-we cant have that.

Just because the "American" auto industry worked so hard to get a reputation for shoddily-built poor performing products, and "out-shopped" more and more of their components, is no reason to make fun of them.....

Those sneaky Toyota and Honda people - dont buy their products. They are cheating. They have the NERVE to "source" their cars here in the United States, build them with American labor, and meet traditional American quality standards. Shame on them ! (looked at the "Monroney sticker" on the new Toyota Sienna 98% UNITED STATES sourced and built!)

And now look - you cant fool me - I bet the reason Toyota and Honda cars are still selling fairly well, and "American" cars are not, is because sneaky Toyota conspirators are out chasing away the lines of car buyers desperate to buy those Fords, Chrysler, and GM products...

Quote:
Having read enough of your posts and style, and in view of other responses over the last few weeks, I hope I am correct in assuming that you are making a point through sarcasm. Because so many jumped on your same style comments about later Packards, I won't take offense but if I'm wrong and your were not being sarcastic, then I do take offense.

At any rate, I do agree with the assessment. I remember a few years back, someone had a slogan "Quality is job one". At around the same time that was getting a lot of airplay, the Powers report came out on defects per hundred vehicles and I don't think there was one American company that wasn't hit pretty hard and was in the middle to lower third overall. Apparently saying it and wishing it didn't make it so

HH56 wrote: "Most of our companies failed or were done in by the usual high labor and ..."

The UAW as well as nearly all other unions have been all but powerless now for nearly 20 years. CERTAINLY at least the last 10 years. Labour costs are old tears all ready dried up. Worse than blaming Hoover for the depression.

So, WHO can anyone blame now??????

I've never belonged to a union and never wanted to belong but always respected them up until 10 or 15 years ago. I never crossed a picket line unless i stopped and asked first. They would most often let me in unless a new contract was to be finalized in a few days. Prior to the mid-80's it would be literaly UNhealthy not to respect their picket line. The rank and file just became too soft.

The union only has itself to blame for it's current powerless position in recent years. This will change as the Mexicans integrate into the US labour force and union power will regain with a vengence that will make the blood baths of Flint '37 and River Rouge '36 look like a sunday school pic-nic.

The problem is that future union power will hit small business. How could it ever hit big business???? Big business has offshored everything.


If a man doesn't like his job he can find a new one or quit. If a business doesn't like the cost of labor then they can close their doors and go out of business.

F'em all!.

HH56 - I now am SURE you should be silenced and kicked off this forum. How DARE you say "wishing dosnt make it so".

That is a direct affront to the splendid thinking of the "American" auto industry

(now why would you get the idea I was being sarcastic & making fun of the determination of Packard to kill the company in those last tragic years.....and set a horrible example the "American" auto industry was only too eager to follow!)

Of COURSE "wishing can make it so". Just look how the "American" auto industry reacted to Honda and Toyota's introduction of what was nothing more than the old AMERICAN concept of good quality. The "American" auto industry decided, instead of beating them at what was OUR "game", tried to get higher import tarrifs to prevent quality cars from coming into our country...!

Boy, the "American" auto industry sure taught Honda and Toyota a lesson!

(now...where can I find that "kit" from the Chrysler Club to change out that silly three speed Chrysler Corp. transmission for that marvelous confidence-building ULTRAMATIC.....)

for V-8

Yes, I have to agree with you - abusive labor practices of SOME unions most certainly were and remain a factor in SOME situations involving production costs.

But let's be fair, and remember the old slogan "for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite REaction". (oh oh...brought up those damn laws of physics again - next I will be accused of relying on those bunch of lies found in the ASTM and SAE "standards".....)

The abusive policies towards workers caused labor to push back hard. My dad's favorite story about abuse was the attitude towards him and his brothers when they asked for a full 20 mins to eat their lunch and warm up (from the 10 mins they were allowed)...all they wanted was 20 mins. WITHOUT PAY, and of course they were turned down. That is ONE of the reasons that caused the growth of the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers).

There is plenty of blame to go around for the fact that virtually all of the famous AMERICAN brands we used to rely on for quality goods that helped build our middle class, have "sold out", licensed their names to Chinese mfgs., and effectively de-capitalized the United States.

My suggestion is that we adopt the principle of "wishing DOES make it so", and stop critisizing how Packard pioneered failure. Who wants to hear a "broken record". I mean...someone might start LISTENING.