Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I have been using Joe Gibbs Joe Gibbs 00507 XP4 15W-50 Conventional Racing Motor Oil in my Clipper; although recently the valves have been chattering a bit, much to the consternation of my wife. I do not know if the oil has anything to do with this (such as the detergent loosening up any crud holding the engine together!), but I knod of doubt it.

Reading the threads here, it seems like everybody is using different oils in their cars.

Quote:

I believe it's what Mr. Bumble said about "loosening up the crud." Non-detergent pretty much lets sleeping crud lie, especially in the bottom of the pan. Detergents can loosen it up and get it circulating in the oil. A big enough chunk could get into an oil line and plug it.

A car that's NEVER had detergent oil and never had a rebuild or at least an oil pan cleaning should probably stay on a diet of non-detergent oil, just to keep from stirring things up.

However, I have been cautiously using detergent oil in my '54 327, and changing it FREQUENTLY, thus doing a slow cleaning. (I do not know the repair history of the engine or the condition of the bottom of the oil pan.) My engine has NO oil filter, and so the screen on the oil pickup gets the big pieces. It's also liable to get fouled, and I want to try to give it a good washing.

Last time I changed oil, it came out black after less than 500 miles. I also had Marvel Mystery oil in it and a can of STP (!). No bits and pieces were found in the oil or the drip pan screen (which is very coarse and more of a splash guard than a screen).

One thing I thought of afterwards is, next time I change the oil, I'm going to try to remember to put a piece of metal window screen over the drip pan screen and see what I catch in it.

The next oil change will probably be at about 1000 mi, unless I go on a long trip like I plan to in late summer. This would entail about 3000 road mi., and who wants to change oil on a trip? But I pull the dipstick frequently, and when it starts to get black, I'll change it no matter what.

ANOTHER good reason to check the oil regularly. Look at the dipstic to see how black the oil is, and give it a sniff for gasoline or, God forbid, antifreeze.

I saw the 55 service manual and svc counselor recommendation for straight weight oil 20 or 30 wt. I think all oils back then were non detergent. If your oil is black after 500 mi I believe some breaking down of the sludge is going on. It could also be some fuel dilution and a rich condition in combustion. After the first 2 oil changes on the clipper, I have used st 30 wt non detergent with a properly jetted modern carb in place of the leak prone 4gc and my oil is clean and golden color after a season of driving. Without a filter or with bypass filtration wont the crud get right passed the pickup screen on the oil pump and go straight to the main and cam bearings? I use a lead substitute additive in the gas tank and a splash of Marvel on fillup for the exhaust valve seats. I may add lucas to the oil but never MMO in the oil .

my 400 is going to be a driver, going to use wal mart oil 30 w ,with pro long, additive, it is an anti friction product, , which the engine was assy, with,, 14 years ago rebuilt a 90 v6 camty, with it ,and use at oil change, and i am using wal mart 20-50w,

Detergent or non-detergent, that is the question.

Whether 'tis nobler to go easy on the engine crud,

or to flush it out.

I know not whence, but I can say that many, many cars were built before the days of detergent oil. I believe, nay, am certain, that detergent oils were available in the '50s. I also will offer the observation that small aircraft piston engines used non-detergents. Their dipsticks were immaculate.

Detergents do just what you'd expect a detergent to do... clean things up. Some folks say that's a good thing, some folks say no. I believe the small aircraft spec for non-detergent oil was to eliminate any chance of a clogged line. Often, these engines were flat opposed, air-cooled "Volkswagen style" engines (NOT made by Volkswagen). BTW, on the topic of Volkswagen, the old bugs did not have oil filters. Neither did many older American cars. Then, they became an option. They were either "bypass" which kept oil running through in case of a clogged filter, but didn't filter all the oil every time through the engine.

The postwar Dodge flathead came with a bypass filter, but you could order a full flow filter as an option.

The '54 Packard 327 in a Clipper Deluxe had no filter as standard, but you could buy a bypass filter as an option.

Of course, as you V8 guys know, the '55 offered a bypass filter only.

I know the screen on my oil pickup is clean enough, because my pressure comes up right away and the oil light goes out. But it probably isn't perfectly clean, hence my detergent oil + Marvel Mystery Oil experiment.

Since some of you were talking about what you use in the gas to affect your valves, I quit using lead substitutes and started using Starbrite Enzyme Fuel Treatment Concentrate about a year ago. For the most part my Clipper runs well with it, since it is designed to counter evil ethanol problems; but lately I have heard some valve chatter, so I suppose it's time for a valve job.

I still vote for detergent oil, especially if you change your oil twice a year (for those not putting high mileage on their cars). That way any sludge or other crud that might get into the oil will be cleaned out with the oil change and the detergent will continue to keep the engine clean.

yup. 2 trains of thought on this one. It would have been interesting to track and document how long the original,barn find unrebuilt motors ran without problems running non det changed 1 per year V the ones running multigrade det oils changed twice a year. Not just Packards but old fords chrys etc. As the crud gets "washed out" it is circulated by the pump before it is drained. Wonder how much metal particals are encased in those crud balls. I remember as a kid, tearing apart old chevys and fords that had sludge an inch thick that had to be scraped with a putty knife.

Quote:

Right you are, customclipper55. The only way to tell for sure is to drop the oil pan and view the evidence. I'm copping out and running detergent, changing freqently, running my fingers through the drained oil (not fun) and hoping I'm doing some good.

The difficulty with oil types and fuel additive discussions is, the results all come down to "studies" with an insufficient "sample." We just have our own experience to go by, and the history of the engines, our driving habits, how often we change oil, and dozens of other "variables" enter the picture.

Unfortunately, nobody is running statistically valid studies for us. We're seat-of-the-pants on this, and that's why sharing information can be helpful, or sometimes just confusing, on issues like oil type and grade, fuel additives, what gas to buy, etc.

It's an ongoing mystery just what, exactly, is going on under the hood.

Body, interior, drivetrain and engine rebuild work are usually much more clearcut!

Quote:

MrBumble,

I agree with all of your assessments except the valve job. I'd change to a heavier straight-weight conventional oil like 40 wt, unless you're in a cold area, and see what happens.

The Starbrite Enzyme treatment you have purchased sounds a lot like the "Star Tron" I was recommended to use in a generator I purchased at Northern Tool yesterday. They urge you to use it in all ethanol containing fuels. It claims to "cure[s] all ethanol fuel problems..." I plan to put a bottle or two in my trunk for when I can't find ethanol-free clear gas, like when I'm on a trip. One bottle is supposed to treat 48 gallons! So, two fill-ups.

One more thing about oil experiences:

Last oil change I put 6.5 qts of straight 30 weight detergent in my 327, and added about 8 oz of Marvel Mystery oil. It seems to be cleaning the engine a bit, according to the tailpipe residue, but I noticed that the oil pressure light flickers when idling.

The oil change before that, I went with straight 40 wt with MM oil, and I put a can of STP in it. There were no problems with oil pressure light during that whole change. So, when it gets down a little on oil, I think I'll put in a can of STP again. I have no lifter noise, but then I don't have hydraulic lifters, just tappets that seem to be adjusted right.

BTW, the shop manual calls for straight weight; it doesn't specify non-detergent or detergent. It'd be interesting if anyone has proof positive that these cars were specifically intended to use non-detergent oil and/or when detergent oils became available.

Yep, here I am just answering myself again. Gettin' to be an oldster.

Regarding the Enzyme fuel additive discussed above:

"Star-Brite" is the company that distributes the "Star Tron" fuel additive.

I kind of trust this snake oil because Northern Tool is a good company and sells a lot of stuff powered by small engines. They might be pushing this stuff due to a lot of people complaining about engine performance with ethanol fuels. They even give away the first bottle, (requiring a rebate of course).

So, I'm going to try it, and if anyone wants to look it up... here is the web page address:


starbrite.com/en/startron