Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I have the door panel off my 400, but motor is working fine so don't want to remove,

the other 56 pat, has power ,,I can use it panels need to be redone ,,so need to remove them,

Would be nice to get some feedback as to whether it is worth pursuing but I can do a bit more work on what I have done and ship to you if you want to play, take it over and refine it. I just did a quickie on the plate and know that can be improved.

There are some clearance issues so if you or anyone else with a door panel off can take a couple of shots of the regulator with motor as it lies inside the door I would appreciate it. I know it is at an angle and I think it has to clear the vertical window channel in the front. Might be good to know how much space is available before getting too involved. The setup I have now is a tiny bit wider than the original motor.

If we proceed will probably order a different motor and see if the adapter fits or if it needs a redo.. The motor I bought was a cheapo made in China brand. It may be common but I'm not familiar with Evan-Fischer. Dorman and Delco aftermarkets are about the same price. Not sure if one would be better or more commonly available but think it might be better to go with Dorman because it is flat sided. The plate takes up space to get the motor in a spot the adapter can fit over the pinion so a round motor sticking out further might have clearance issues in the door. Also need to figure out how to handle the relays -- mount on the adapter plate or leave on sockets with extra wire length for attaching elsewhere.. Am thinking adapter plate since that would probably be the most consistent with the different applications and regulators.

ft door,,

its rainy now,,

relays,

mount on door, access easy to get to

will get pictures from 400 tomorrow

This is a great project that I've been following with interest even though I'm not yet ready to work on my 1956 Clipper and then it will be to just get it driveable again. I have the stock motors and scissors still in the box in which they were shipped to me but have not tested them and do not have the wiring harness or switches. That said, I also have a spare set of '56 Patrician doors without glass that I would be happy to use as a test bed if needed, if it can be co-ordinated to one of the brief visits to my Oregon workshop. I'm sure you'll find someone closer to help but the offer is there should none other appear.

As for the details, a kit with motor would probably be better than just the adapter and I for one would not mind a non-stock motor but I am not keen on the relays. I did have a look online of window motor suppliers but it wasn't clear what was expected to reverse the rotation although surely some discrete solid state switch would be better than mechanical relays if such a thing is really necessary. This, of course, is just my two-cents' worth and I'm putting it out there as encouragement and support!

The Packard reversible motors have two field coils which are reverse wound. One coil is used for forward and the other is used for reverse. Both coils are connected together at one end and use that point to provide power to the armature which places it in series with whichever field coil is being used. The other wire from armature is internally tied to ground. In this arrangement, whenever one coil is used, the opposite coil does nothing. The switch takes the power and feeds one of the coils depending on direction needed and the armature sees the different magnetic polarity caused by the different winding direction of field coil and moves accordingly.

Modern motor fields are for the most part permanent magnets so no field coils. The magnetic polarity in relation to the armature never changes. In order to reverse direction on those motors the armature has to reverse polarity. Since there are only the two armature wires brought out either the switch has to do the reversing or in our case, because the Packard switch only has one voltage wire out for each direction those wires would operate relays -- one for each direction. The two relay combinations of N.O and N.C. contacts would switch the positive and negative going to the armature. A motor wire would see voltage for one direction and ground for the other.

Biggest problem with going with solid state relays is polarity and price. Since 55 and 56 have different grounds the solid state relay would need to be configured accordingly and would also be susceptible to damage with an accidentally reversed battery. Most SS relays capable of the current requirements the motor needs are fairly expensive.

A common Bosch style or cube type relay with 40 amp contacts is less than $5 and is not polarity sensitive. All it would take between 55 and 56 is hooking up the Packard switch to operate the proper relay so up and down was correct. If the battery is reversed, the worst that would happen is the window would go opposite to the switch until the battery was corrected.

I used to know all this but, as with my cars, decades of disuse has made me forget so your refresher has really helped.

If a relay is really needed (and it seems it is), then there are relays already made for the specific purpose such as this one on Amazon.com, which would do the job in one single unit that, though a bit large, can be probably mounted directly to the motor adapter plate (just search Amazon.com for "Motor Reversing Relay"):

Attach file:

---

  (16.67 KB)

I like the 2-in-1 relay pictured. Got a link?


I still have to convert the rear doors in my Pat...they are NoOp right now.

Craig

A possibility for sure but it appears to be a mechanical item too. A bit of overkill at 150/75 amps but better too much than too little. Even non Amazon prime, the price is a bit more than regular relays. Would need a spec sheet to see if it would work with the the already powered Packard switches or if something else would need to change. Didn't see anything infowise on the DB Electrical website.