Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Quote:

For those who rebuild PV-8s like Jack Vines, myself and others, there is nothing special about the BIG BLOCK other than its 5in bore center.

If it had some "fixes", then the Packard V-8 would have been a killer engine. As was, it was just as Packard intended, i.e., a nice running engine to drag a 4500-5000lb car up and down the roads of the day.

Nothing wrong with that.

Craig

I'm surprised the big block/small block thing isn't obvious. But maybe you guys weren't reading hot rod magazines in the 60s ha ha.

The first use of the term I remember came after Chev introduced the 396 in 1965. It was a totally new design with almost no parts interchanging with their existing engine and was decidedly bigger and 100 pounds heavier.

The "blocks" of course were completely different. So to be technical a "small block" engine refers to the Chev 265-283-327-350-400 series and the "big block" is the Chev 366-396-402-427-454 family.

Since then the same term has been borrowed for other brands even though they had their own nomenclature. Chrysler for example always referred to A and B engines, the A engine being the old pre 1966 318, LA being the newer 318, B the 383 type, and RB the same as the B but with a taller block deck for the 413 and bigger jobs.

I know I got a laugh when I worked in a VW garage and referred to the Type 4 Bus engine as a "big block Volkswagen". Even though that is what it was.

Good point Rusty. THe "big block" trend of the 60's-70's was mostly a US marketing ploy. Note that the rest of the world did not use or offer such wide varieties or such massive engines.

It's kind of like the US facination with 0-60 ET statistics often posted in road tests of magazines and discussed so affectionately by enthusiasts. Marketing ploy.

0-60???? very few people in rural areas ever drive any less than 55 or 60 mph unless they are leaving the drive way.

Now the trend it's cup holders, GPS, and sewing machine engines and environmental heroes. Whatever GM,F or DCX tells J.Q. Public to fall in love with they will with heart,mind body and soul.

20 years from now, most of u will look back at the last 20 years and laugh and say "what were we thinking".


Speaking of which, does anyone remeber C's Mean Mary-Jane advertisements of the late 60's - early 70's???? Sure made me want to go out and by a Dodge.

As an example, i.e., Pontiac:

287, 316, 347, 370, 389, 421, 428, 455 on the same block frame

Aftermarket now: 474, 501, 511, 526, 541, 601 (max 4.75 bore x5.00 stroke) on the same block frame.

Externally, they all look and measure the same.

Imagine Packard with different heads and 5.000 bore centers!

Craig

what about the 326 used in the mid 60's Tempest maybe other Ponchos.

While this is WAY off topic, yes EVERY Pontiac V8 from the first 287" to the last 455" was built on the same external block dimension:

Engine Development: Small Journal Engines

* 3.1 287
* 3.2 316
* 3.3 336
* 3.4 347
* 3.5 370
* 3.6 389
* 3.7 326
* 3.8 400
* 3.9 350
* 3.10 303
* 3.11 366
* 3.12 301
* 3.13 265

Engine Development: Large Journal Engines

* 4.1 421
* 4.2 428
* 4.3 455

Rusty,

366 is a Chevy displacement figure I never ran across before.

Since it's a Chevy BB, it's half on topic!


Anyone,

Earlier I introduced just a couple of questions.

1. Were any of the first generation overhead valve V8 engines of GM, Ford, or Chrysler wedge heads?

2. Which came first, the Cadillac 331 or the Oldsmobile "Kettering" 303? Or 303.7 if you want to get technical.

I think 0-60 gives a fairly good indication of overall performance, as do 1/4 mile times. The one I like the best is 0-100-0 used by some sportin' life magazines for the likes of the Shelby Cobra, Chevelle SS-396 or SS-454, Buick GSX 455 and any Mopar 426 Hemi or 440. How fast you stop is as/more important than how fast you go/

Note: I do remember Mean Mary Jean. Sigh, I hope she's enjoying a nice retirement.

The Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles in 1949, Studebaker in '51 and Packard in '55, were all Kettering wedge head, siamesed center exhaust, air gap intake, shaft rocker arm designs.

The '51-55 V8s from Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge were all hemi combustion chambers.

The '55 Chevrolet and Pontiac were second generation, with stud mounted stamped rockers.

The '53-65 Buick was the bastard child, with pent-roof reversed rockers.

thnx, jack vines.

Thanks Jack for filling in "all" the Pontiac CIDs. Actually there were several sub-varients in the "small" journal CIDs, but that's way off topic. All "big" journals were 3.250. The 301 and 265 CID are short deck "economy" blocks and are generally ignored by the performance crowd.

Interestingly, today one can now either buy (already cut down) or adapt (by cutting down) one of the stroker cranks (big journal) into a 400CID block, which are very common and thereby achieve one of the larger displacements without paying a premium for the relatively rare big journal blocks. Pistons are also available at various pin heights and dish volumes to deal with stroke length and CR with various performance heads.

Maybe this is the way Packard would have developed had that engine stayed around into the 60s.

Craig

Jack,

What's an "air gap intake?"

BTW Kettering is a great look-up. Seems he invented about a million things (well 300 or so patents). I wonder if he worked on the Cadillac 331, too. Since they came out the same model year, were they parallel projects, or was on really based on the other?

Look up Kettering here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Kettering


Couldn't find much history on the Caddy.


Besides wide-spaced bores and plenty of room to grow, what was the most outstanding (even if not ground-breaking) feature of the Packard V8?

I've got the complete "white paper" engineering report on the 352c.i. Packard V8, and some of the reasoning behind their design decisions, but can't point to one that is unique. However, it did mention that the much vilified vacuum pump was also meant to scavenge air from the crankcase at idle to provide ventilation when the car was not moving (thus no "draft" being created for the draft tube).