Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

The BTV is worse apparently because something fails causing the fluid to be sucked up into the reservoir, and causing total brake failure. It wouldn't matter if it had a dual reservoir master cylinder on it, (which wouldn't fit because it's too long) this would still happen. The whole unit is unsafe because of this fact. Find out what causes the sudden part failure and fluid loss, find a permanent fix, and you will probably have a "decent" brake setup, not the best, but "decent". It won't ever be good because it's still a single line master cylinder, and hence unsafe from the start.

chuckltd: Quote:
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Although I do not agree with this "bottom line" to his somewhat lengthy post, I think Chuck has some good points that <b>NO</b> braking system is fool proof, particularly if it is not maintained. This goes along with I am sensing may be the final consensus on the BTV issues that started this thread.
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To add two examples to what Chuck cited that are not BTV or Packard related, but are in the category of semi-modern collector cars: Gen-2 Pontiac Firebirds (disc/drum or disc/disc) have been known to have cracked proportioning valves (because they are cast iron, I presume). This causes (usually) the rear of the dual master cylinder to leak out the crack and eliminate (usually) the rear drum brake function. One another example of a 1971 Firebird that I know of, the MC had to be replaced because the internal seals were leaking.
</p><p>However, in neither case was there a catastrophic failure. In the first case, the BRAKE light came on being detected by low pressure signal in the Pro-valve and in the second case, the pedal started to bleed down when constantly applied at a dead stop. IMO, one would have to be stupid to not pay attention to either one of these direct indicators</p>
<p>One big positive to an entirely new brake system, like I installed on my 1963 Tempest (new lines, new rear overhaul, converted to disc brakes & dual master and since sold to a happy new owner) is that one could probably expect to wait 50 some-odd years before encounting a systemic brake failure (installer errors ignored).
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I agree with Eric and others that at the <b>VERY LEAST</b>, install a dual master system. Also, install front disc brakes because <b>NOBODY</b> seems to argue with that upgrade.
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Craig
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<p>P.S. I am, as Keith pointed out, "moving on" WRT to the BTV, but brakes are <b>SO</b> important that I felt compelled to post again on the general topic. -- just like Keith did.

Craig...

Why install disk brakes? I had someone run a red light in front of me, and i slammed on the brakes and slammed my friend into the dash.

My Pat has more than enough stopping power, and i cant imagine why someone elses would be different.

mikec: Quote:
<p>This is a whole 'nother thread, I guess.</p>
<p>Brakes are nothing but heat dissipation devices. If the drum brakes can dissipate sufficient heat, then one does not need discs.</p>
<p>I remember one instance of driving my Dad's 55 Clipper with a car load of high school kids (me too) down a steep hill in San Diego and by the time I got to the bottom of the hill, the Clipper brakes had completely faded.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are other stories too</p>
<p>My concern is driving 70-85mph on a freeway and having some small vehicle jump in front of me and slam on its brakes. I know that either I will be able to stop or I will boot that that thing several hundred feet, like my friend Paul did in Las Vegas!</p>
<p>Better to have more stopping power than less. Also, discs do not need the frequent adjustment that drums require.
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<p>If you really want to pursue this topic, then please start another thread.
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Craig
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I'm essentially a purist and wouldn't consider changing from drum brakes, but the fact is that people today are less-skillful drivers than driver's needed to be in the past. For example brake fade is unknown to today's drivers but driver's of my age grew up with it and were taught how to minimize it and manage it. My 56 Carib has the same brake system as you Patrician, and on driving tours in very hilly country like the Finger Lake region of New York I've experienced brake fade any number of times. But I learned to use lower gears on steep downgrades and otherwise alter my driving habits and thus it's not a problem. But for a guy who just stepped out of his Lexus into his first vintage drum-brake car, it could well be a problem because he has no idea that a different set of driving skills may be required, depending on the vintage of the car. Many of today's newby collectible car owners want the glamor of an old car, but aren't willing (or don't think they have to) to learn the skills that accompany such cars. We can play an important role in that regard via forums such as these.

I think the main questions here to completely solve all these questions and queries about brakes would be these:
#1, If single line master cylinders are so good, why isn't anyone using them today?
#2, If drum brakes are so good, why is it that no car manufacturer today makes them?


If anyone can give me good reasons why the world auto industry in their complete stupidity gave up drum brakes and single line master cylinders I'm all ears, really.

ok! ok! I'm willing to accept the modern tandem cylinder conversion. OR at least until some consensus has been established as to WHAT DUAL cylinder and power unit is best suited for ez adaptation to the 55-56's.

Eric, u've already come up with the Ford truck application that seems to be most suitable and also u placed it into operation.

So what more do we need????? Does no one else consider the Ford truck conversion viable for some reason?????

Disk can be added at a later time after the Ford truck MC and power unit has gained acceptance and confirmed by those willing to convert??????

It doesn't have to be a Ford truck booster setup used. I just went that way because it was cheap and easy to do. I'm sure ANY setup would work, providing the diameter of the booster is small enough to fit in the space provided and whatever master cylinder is chosen fits the application requirements. Nothing is set in stone here, sometimes you just need to think outside of the box and think for yourselves.

Does no one else consider the Ford truck conversion viable for some reason?????


I think it would be helpful to post a pict or two of the setup for all to see. I don't think it is a matter of no one likes it--just no one can totally visualize where & how things are relocated and how it compares to original inside and under hood. In my case, it wouldn't work because of the factory AC blower but that's a unique situation and mod would be viable for most if they liked it.

Ask and ye shall receive, pics of my conversion:

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