Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Hi, Tim,

There exists a time-tested method to find any problem areas or wear which allows oil pressure leakage. This test was formerly more common than it is today.

A gallon of oil is placed in a pressurized container having a hose with a valve in it. The end of the hose is connected to the oil galleries of the engine, having the pan, rockers covers and lifter cover removed. The valve is opened and the pressurized oil fills the system and starts oozing out of the 16 rockers, 16 lifters, 8 rods, 5 main bearings, 5 cam bearings. The crankshaft is rotated manually to distribute the oil and any excessive leakage is seen as the oil drips into a tray underneath the engine.

A bit messy, but the one sure way to find any problem areas.

thnx, jack vines

It's already been determined that the oil pump isn't the only issue with the Packard V8. There's several underlying factors that contribute with the oiling problems, the cam plate, the bypass oil filter, mis-aligned pump driveshaft, spring baffles, plugged oil pumps, oil pumps with little tubes soldered to them to suck oil instead of air, they all seem as band aid fixes to something more serious. I think Keith's on the right track with the oil galley issue and air, but there's more to it than that. I firmly believe that the Olds pump pumps enough oil to cover up the underlying problems of the Packard V8 engine to make them a non-issue. BUT, we're ignoring the fact that there's more to the story than just the pump. I seriously think that there's an interior casting flaw in the oil galleys that causes most if not all of the problems, and it's exaggerated by the weak factory pump.

That being said, I think that Craig's full flow oiling conversion used in conjunction with the Olds pump solves the issue completely. Unfortunately, this cannot be done with the engine in the car, and must be done at the time of rebuild.

It's funny that Packard built wonderful, dependable engines for over 50 years, and the last two years that they made their own engines they screwed up so badly.

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We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I've been all through dozens of blocks and never found an interior casting flaw.

Design flaws, yes. The Packard V8 shares design weaknesses common to many engines of that era.

1. The early Olds, Buick and Pontiac as well as the Packard all have weak main bearing webs and insufficient reinforcement up through the middle of the block and the lifter valley. Later designs have twice the iron there. The early engines were designed for a maximum of 4,500 RPMs and for smooth, quiet operation, not high horsepower.

2. The '55 Chevrolet V8 had oiling problems and went through a couple of design changes before becoming bulletproof. Packard could have done the same if they had lasted long enough.

3. I'm still not 100% sure of the root causes of main bearing wear and failure. It's difficult to pinpoint because I've never pulled down an original engine which didn't shows signs of neglect, from benign to absolutely criminal. When there are so many problems, it is difficult to know which came first:
A. No engineer today would design the oil pump and drive system like the Packard, but many were like it back in the day. The Packard was just the bottom of the learning curve. FWIW, other than having a hex drive shaft, the Oldsmobile oil pump isn't materially different in design from the Packard. The Olds still has the bypass valve open at the end, so that evidently wasn't the smoking gun for which the Packard engineers were searching.
B. The Packard crankshaft, main bearing caps and main bolts are hell-for-stout, so they aren't the problem area.
C. All aftermarket race blocks today use "priority main oiling." That is, the main bearings get their oil pressure first and separately from the lifters and cam bearings. That the Packard feeds everything off the same oil galleries is the most likely reason for Packard main bearing problems
i. On some of the engines I and another racer have built separately, we've drilled out the oil feed holes from the oil galleries to the main bearing webs and then drilled the holes in the main bearings to the same oversize. We'll get back to you in a few years as to whether this helps.
ii. Packard used Federal Mogul bearings. These were high quality bearings and there is no reason to suspect inferior bearing material as a root cause.

4.The Packard V8s I have seen which have been professionally rebuilt to spec in every area, using the second design cam retainer plate and spacer and a new or rebuilt second design OEM oil pump have no problems thus far with oil pressure or lifter clatter.

5. If the oil pump is strong and the internal clearances are to spec, the bypass oil filter works just fine when good oil is used and the oil and filter is changed at least once a year or 3,000 miles. If I had an engine with either low oil pressure or lifter clatter, the first thing I would try is change the oil. Next, block off the oil pressure line to the filter. This will probably raise the oil pressure by at least 5#. If this lessens the symptoms, just run without the filter and change the oil every three month of use.

We're all learning here, and if we live a while longer, the Packard V8 oiling questions will be conclusively solved.

thnx, jack vines

It would be most beneficial to know the diameter of main bearing oil feed galleries of OTHER engines for comparison. I'll try to measure one on an SBC i have apart up the street tomorrow. Maybe others with F or C blocks laying around can measure those.

As for Federal MOgul supplying the bearings it is quite possible that federal Mogul made the bearing to PACKARD specs which may have been inferior. Witness Ford V8 fuel pumps made by AC ca. 1954.

Hi Jack:

I've seen the video on the oil tank method, and have seen tanks used to prime dry motors, but without a specification for how much oil should be flowing per minute, or how much pressure leak down there should be per minute, I don't see much coming out of it unless a bearing is falling out of the motor. Although some of the assembly bloopers I've seen (rod bearings installed backwards and what not) would have been detected via a test. I suppose it could find a hole somewhere, but the kind of problem I'm thinking about is a little more esoteric. Suppose the foaming is due to caviation because something is inhibiting flow. Suppose there is an internal restriction in the block. The flow test would look great because nothing is getting through.

Quote:

Hence my suggestion of a casting flaw in the block. It won't be the first one I found on a Packard V8.

Hi, Eric,Quote:

So we all would know what to look for, what were the casting flaws you have found on the V8 block?

thnx, jack vines

In the rear driver's side of the block, remove the rearmost freeze plug. Towards the bottom of the plug and towards the back, there's a very thin spot there. So thin, on my '55 320 that I put in my Patrician I had to drill it out and put in a plug as it started leaking. Every Packard V8 that I've come across has this flaw.

"So thin, on my '55 320 that I put in my Patrician I had to drill it out and put in a plug as it started leaking. Every Packard V8 that I've come across has this flaw."

Is that to say that the engine coolant was leaking into the oil gallery????

T'pacman. I can not understand what u are talking about.

The rear most WATER JACKET freeze plug is nowhere near an oil gallery. There is a welch plug in BACK of the block (trans MUST be removed for access) ONLY to plug the machining access hole for the left longitudinal oil gallery but that welch plug does NOT come anywhere near the oil gallery. The distributor is between the plug and the left oil gallery. A pipe plug is in the oil gallery.