Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Dave,

Tell me, what would you consider the safe (prolonged, say one hour) cruising speed to run a 1930 Std 8 with stock gears? Lets assume the engine is in good condition. I feel comfortable at 50mph but anything over 55 just seems like it's too much.

Not to hijack the thread too badly, I have chosen to run Rotella SF rated 15W-40 in my 726. I have 35 or 40 lbs of pressure going down the road at speed.

Scott

Hi! It's me again (Tim Cole) the oil change guy.

I have some Packard manuals in front of me. In 1954 and 1955 they list three grades of motor oil: ML, MM, and MS. ML is Regular motor oil, MM is Premium motor oil, and MS is Detergent motor oil.

In 1954 the Packard Manual specifies either ML or MM but not MS. That is, for the straight eight use non-detergent.

In 1955 the Packard Manual specifies MS Detergent for severe service in the V-8.

Why has this changed?

The answer is that the V-8 has a Full Flow oil filter whereas the straight eight has a By-Pass oil filter.

In a detergent motor oil contaminants are kept in suspension so that they can be captured by the full flow oil filter. They never get to the bearings.

With non-detergent oil contaminants "settle out" into the oil pan when the engine is shut off. Over time this becomes visible as sludge. That is your primary filter.

Without a full flow filter detergent oil is actually detrimental once contaminants build up to a certain level because they impregnate bearings and gears and cause corrosion.

The 34 through 39 senior Packards all had full flow filters and so they can use detergent although the V-12 seems to me to run quieter on non-detergent.

The 2000 mile service interval (1000 for severe service) is designed for non-detergent oil. The problem is that using detergent is considered severe usage without a full flow filter.

The primary reason modern cars can go 7500 to 10000 miles without oil changes is not because crude oil has improved, but because the engines run so much cleaner. Those carburetors are really dirty especially with old fashioned air filters. The modern oil additive packages accommodate these longer oil change intervals which also causes less waste.

Now when it comes to beating the daylights out of Packards fortunately a lot of Packard speedometers read too high which helps the engine. Other than the V-8 the little 288 is probably the most rugged plant because of the shorter stroke. The solid tappets are also a better deal. However the larger 327 with its 4 1/4 inch stroke is closing in on the old super 8 and the 359 is only 1/2 inch behind. A 1954 Patrician is churning 3000 rpm at 65 mph which is pretty substantial. It sounds pretty busy at 55!

If you don't believe me take a stick shift 327 to the drag strip. After you have been pushing it higher and higher to improve your time you may encounter a gigantic boom when number 2 connecting rod goes into orbit. For some reason the rods like to fly out in one piece leaving the piston inside the engine. When you pull over the motor will probably still be running albeit with a miss.

That's why I don't push Packards. An M-80 is a lot cheaper thrill.

When you have your 55-56 Service Manual out go to section IX Page 6 fig.13 titled oiling system it does not show a full flow oil system. At least my copy does not show a full flow filter in the accepted sense of the word.

Sorry to dissagree Tim, but the 55/56 V8 Packards have a bypass oil filter, not a full flow.

Scott, my 34 Eight has stock 4.69 gears which was pretty much standard for the closed cars; the lighter open cars could have that, or 4.36, or 4.07. In my case I find 45 to 50 to be very comfortable cruising speeds and the engine is essentially silent. I've occasionally cruised at 55 for an hour or two where modern highways seemed to demand it, but try to avoid it.

You are both right!

I have this piece of paper that says full flow and obviously it is not. I wondered about that given the can on top of the engine.

The last time I worked on the Packard V-8 was awhile ago. A body shop had gone out to see if the engine would start. They ran it a little and shut it off. The engine seized because of condensation in the cylinders. I freed two stuck pistons, honed it, and the car kept running until the owner died from old age. It was his only car.

Anyway I talked to an engineer about this and he feels that the big problem is that old engines are just plain dirty and need frequent oil changes. A number of manufacturers in the fifties were recommending detergent oil for cars as soon as they came onto the market. However, the switch to full flow filtration became universal very shortly because petroleum researchers were finding corrosion without enough filtration. By 1969 Chevrolet was recommending annual oil changes thanks to full flow oil filtration.

The other day I was looking at engine parts from a rebuilt V-12 that were in really bad shape. That is, it is on its second rebuild. The owner always used detergent oil and the detergent obviously wasn't helping very much. I think the biggest problem is not enough original Packard parts. These new parts just aren't as good as genuine Packard merchandise.

I agree with your last sentence, Tim. Though the availability of repro parts keeps our cars on the road and allows us the enjoyment of same, many of them sure don't match the quality of the originals. For example, king pin kits with bronze bushings instead of caged needle bearings, pistons without autothermic struts, and a host of other examples. But I guess we have to be pleased that those parts are available at all, what would we do without them?