Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Yes I do understand. The painter here said most in Paint suppliers in England, will mix color from copy of example . In other words, you bring photo of color, they mix so color matches. I was hoping for original formula . Rusty, how many gallons did you order, ? And just out of interest, did you sand car down yourself? And long did it take? Did you use grinder and 4.5" stripping wheel?

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That is a lousy way to try to match color. Photos are not accurate in fact the paint on the car has probably faded too. Take a close look at a photo and you will see several shades of color depending how the light or shade hits it. Now hold the photo next to the car and see how far off it is. Now run the photo thru a computer and printer and it will not even be close.

Why not leave it to the experts and just mix it to the correct formula? Why go to a lot of extra trouble to get the same result?

If you really want to do it the hard way find a sample of paint on the car that has been out of the sun and not faded. The inside of the glove box lid is usually good. Then match to that. You will get a more accurate match.

The Chrysler I mentioned belonged to my father. I did not paint it, the paint job was done in another shop. The car was a 2 tone job and it was a complete - door jambs, inside the trunk, under the hood , the lot. Also a 1951 New Yorker is a hell of a big car. As big as a Packard Patrician.

I believe the paint job took 5 quarts. One gallon of the body color and 1 quart for the roof. Plus hardener, reducer etc. This was a straight enamel job not base clear. The intent was to duplicate the original colors and finish as close as possible.

The original color combination was Quebec Gray and Haze Blue. This combination did not flatter such a big formal car. I would have loved to see it in black or dark blue, it would have looked a million times better if you ask me.

I have stripped the paint off an old car with a disc grinder. It is a very delicate art. You need to use a fine grit disc and a delicate touch. With a little practice I got good enough to strip off 4 or 5 coats of cheap paint and barely scratch the original finish but this was after years of practice using a grinder.

I have also stripped a car using nothing but a $3 razor blade scraper from the hardware store. The kind that takes a single edge razor blade. No I am not kidding. This was another old car that had several cheap paint jobs. The bottom paint job was not stuck to the factory paint very well. It was a simple matter to get the scraper in there and peel the top layers off in strips. It took a day or 2 to strip the car but no nasty chemicals were used. It was practically as quick as using stripper or a grinder. O yes I did have to use some stripper around the edges and places the razor blade would not reach.

If you must strip cheap paint off a car I recommend the razor blade scraper method. There is a knack to it but it is easy to learn. You can strip a car just as quick this way as any other you can do at home and it is by far the cleanest method as well as the cheapest.

Just got a reply from TCP Global who supply paints. They said they have formula, but not prepared to sell it or part with such a old formula. How ever they can make it up.
N BF-2917 BELLEVUE GREEN

You prob need alot of paint as when spraying so much wasted. As a amature guess, I would say 4 gallons would be needed, maybe 3 as it's a convertible.

For the dash, I want both Bellevue and Packard Ivory which is 246-55967
Made by 246-0097. White
246-064 Ferrite Yellow
246-0751-H. Chrome Oxide Green

By sanding down yourself, price can be nearly half of what you would pay. ESP if you are doing a complete body re-Spray.
When you have picked out your color, Do most use Matalic pain

Great idea Rusty, razor blade if cheap paint to be removed. Might give the grinder a miss, don't want to destroy metal. When painting dash, do you use spray can? And prep work, primer etc the same as body shell?

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Now where have I heard that before? O ya that is what I have been trying to tell you from the first.


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Nowhere near that much. One gallon should be enough for the body. Your painter may need to start with one quart so he can paint inside the hood, in the trunk, door jams, instrument panel etc. as he does the bodywork then order the rest when he does the complete paint job.

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You will only need a pint of the ivory.You already have a quart of the green from the paragraph above.


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Better clear this with the bodyman or painter. There are many pitfalls involved if you are not experienced in the art.Yes there is a lot of sheer grinding hard work and that costs money, but there is a certain amount of skill involved too. Sometimes it costs more to straighten out an amateur's work than to just do the job right from the start.
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Whatever paint you chose will be either metallic or not. You don't get to chose that. Of course if you prefer a metallic finish you can chose one from the list.

You do get to chose the type of paint such as, plain or base/clear. This is something you will need to discuss with your painter. Every paint company has its own finishes and its own names for different types of paint and every painter prefers to stick with the brand he likes and is used to.

"Great idea Rusty, razor blade if cheap paint to be removed. Might give the grinder a miss, don't want to destroy metal. When painting dash, do you use spray can? And prep work, primer etc the same as body shell?"

Spray can or touch up gun. Many paint suppliers can make spray cans in any color you like but it is more expensive than just buying the paint. A sheet metal instrument panel would be prepped and painted exactly the same as the body.

There are so many cheap air compressors and cheap spray guns available. Last year I bought a set of 3 gravity feed paint guns, one paint one primer and one touch up gun for under $90 for the lot. I have also seen little putt putt compressors for $39.99 on sale. If you have a shop or garage a little compressor is very handy. The paint guns were very good for the price in fact work better than the DeVilbiss gun I started out with 40 years ago and that cost a week's pay. If you have a place to use it the little compressor, plus some air tools like sander and spray gun would pay for themselves on the first job.

I must warn you this is a skilled trade and unless you have a good teacher your first job will resemble a dog's breakfast. This is not a knock to you, we all have to learn and it takes some experience knowledge and skill to turn out a good paint job.

Gary I know you are ready to jump in with both feet and your questions have been all over the place (from paint to engine, etc). But I would try to focus one one task at a time, or the project will bury you. The is were the "Basket Cases" come from. Guys but these cars, and in their excitement start taking everything apart. Then it gets to a point were they have bitten off more than they can chew at one time and the car sits....and sits...and sits. Now they dont have the energy, time or money to put it back together, and it ends up being sold off for parts, or getting crushed.

So first thing you need to ask yourself is what is the final product you are going for. A show car? A nice well sorted driver?

I would concentrate on the mechanicals first, as really they are the most important. Everything else is cosmetic after that.

Go through the systems one by one from start to finish, and then move on to the next sub-project. For example, fully sort out the brake system, then the fuel system, then the electrical, and then the steering and suspension. Then you dive into the motor and driveline components now that all the supporting systems are up to snuff. This way you are only taking apart what you can work on at one time and keeping the rest of the car together.

A disassembled car takes up about 4 times the physical space of an assembled car. So keeping the car together as much as possible will not only give you an easier working area, put with help keep the parts from getting lost or misplaced.

Paint and Upholstery are really the last stages. It's good to have a general plan for them, but I wouldn't obsess over them at this point in the project.

Just my

Yes Kev I take your point. Just trying to get it right before car shipped over , with correct advice. I don't want my color to be matched by photo, but by the correct formula, and easy to put 1 gallon and one pint of paint in car being shopped over, and know it's correct. Paint can be stored away until later date. I asked painters here, and one painting my car, and all will only match old paint formulas with photos etc. Which is no good to me. I want car to look showroom condition in correct way as it was when new. The painter here can store car for me until any time I am ready. He is a mechanic too. So that's a big help. Is it true the Coupe Convertible does not two tone well, or can it look good? With Bellevue and Galahad?
Bellevue being the main color.

It's such a pain here in England, you give them correct code, they say it's no good here, just copy from sample or picture. Just terrible.
I will of course concentrate on things like Brakes, Motors, Engine, Electrics etc. But while car in America, makes fence to get everything just right and packed in car prior tonshipping. Then I know all is as should be. I will get the one gallon Bellevue and one pint Packard Ivory, and Galahad paint, half gallon perhaps put in car. I will compare prices with JCP Global, Kanter etc and see which is less cost, as sure both are good.

I can't believe an English paint supplier cannot mix the paint if given the formula. I also cannot believe no paint company in England has the paint formulas, especially as I have bought paint for American cars here in Canada, from English and European based companies.

When I started painting cars years ago one of the most popular brands of paint in Canada was CIL which was partly owned by the English ICI company. They had the formulas for all the fifties cars in the world back then.

Since the 90s Sikkens has become a popular brand in Canada. In spite of the fact that they are new here they also have the formulas for paints at least back to 1951. I just found out, by a quick Google search that they are a Dutch company that started in Groningen in 1792. My father was born in Groningen but much later. So there is a coincidence.

They also say Sikkens bought the English ICI company in 2008 which I think was the parent company of CIL. I know Sikkens has all the formulas for American cars so maybe a Sikkens or CIL dealer can help.

Frankly I believe any auto paint dealer of any brand could help you if they would pull their finger out and do their job. The information is available if they felt like sending an Email or making a phone call. But Sikkens definitely has the information, as do American companies like RM, DuPont or PPG.

If it were me I would not give up until I called all the local suppliers. Surely someone knows their job.

I wouldn't get the paint made up until you are ready to use it. Paint does have a shelf life, and it would be expensive to waist if you project stumbles across delays along the way.

May I suggest that you purchase How to Restore Your Musclecar by Greg Donahue and Paul Zazarine (Motorbooks, Intl., 1990). While it's focus is primarily on 1960's era American muscle cars, it is a well illustrated book detailing the basic steps involved in any frame-off restoration of a post war automobile. You'll read about the tools needed, the basic steps involved and the proper order in which to proceed. Most importantly, it will provide you the knowledge needed to focus your questions so that the answers provided here can better assist you in your project.

Kevin is absolutely right. Done correctly, your project has a long way to go before you need to worry about paint or upholstery. Take your time, pay attention to detail and adhere to a logical plan and you'll be alright. Tear it apart, willy-nilly, and within a few years you'll be selling the parts on eBay wondering what went wrong.