Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Has anyone run across a supplier of the fluid for King Seeley Hydrostatic Fuel Gauges that doesn't turn clear after exposure to light?

All the sources I've tried have the same result - the liquid goes from red to light amber after 3 - 6 months, faster if exposed to light.

Some background on the fluid used originally:

Chemical Name - acetylene tetrabromide also called 1,1,2,2-tetrabromoethane

Specific gravity- 2.95 to 2.96

Color - red

Original literature called for it to be dyed with 'Durant' scarlet dye.

The modern replacement liquid sold by the vendors has a tendency to lose its color after some time.

classicandexotic.com/store/p-300-king-seeley-fuel-gauge-red-fluid.aspx

Any Chemists out there that can suggest an available substitute?

I've included some repair tips for this type gauge I ran across.

Attach file:

---

  (147.04 KB)


  (151.23 KB)


  (156.30 KB)


  (145.12 KB)


  (110.38 KB)

One source that carries liquid for manometers:

meriam.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=8&idproduct=36

Their 295 product is right for density and color, although the highly corrosive property bothers me since the original King Seeley gauge body is a zinc die casting.

Attach file:

---

  (45.12 KB)

What happens out of the temperature range? I could see some storage or parking conditions might exceed the 40-100F

I think the source for the manometer gauge liquid gave a generic temp. range for usage of their gauges.

The active ingredient in the gauge liquid is acetylene tetrabromide which has a freezing point of -1?C and a boiling point of 119?C.



MSDS: ACETYLENE TETRABROMIDE

CHEMICAL DATA: Synonyms:1,1,,2,,2 -Tetrabromoethane; acetylene tetrabromide; TBE tetrabromoacetylene;
Muthmann's liquid

Chemical family: Brominated alkanes
Formula: C2H2Br4;CHBr2CHBr2
Molecular weight: 345.7

CAS RN: 79-27-6

INGREDIENTS: Tetrabromoethane - 100% (approximately)

PHYSICAL DATA: Boiling point: 119?C at 15 mm Hg
150?C at 50 mm Hg

Freezing point: -1?=1?C

Vapor pressure: 0.02-0.1 mm Hg at 20?C

Vapor density: 11.9 (air = 1)

Solubility
in water: 0.063g/100 at 20?C; 0.28g/100 at 80?C
in other solvents: Miscible in all proportions with a number of well known organic
solvents like acetone, alcohol, benzene, carbon tetrachloride, chloform, etc.

Specific gravity: 2.96 at 25?C

Evaporation rate: >100 (ethyl ether = 1)

Decomposition: Decomposes at 239 -242?C (760 mm Hg)
Appearance and odor: Colorless to yellowish liquid with sweet pungent odor.

Found a source of the correct density liquid for these gauges from a company that makes manometers for sensing the tank liquid level in large container ships.

The supplier claims the red color will not fade over time like the gauge liquid offered from other suppliers.

Except for the red dye, chemically it is identical to the fluid originally supplied.

Some testing on a sample will tell.

Additional post to follow testing.

I'll be interesting in the fading chaactristics. The red liquid supplied for my gas gauge immediately faded as soon as I put the top down and sunlight hit the liquid.

From what I've been able to find out the red dye originally used in the gauge liquid, acetylene tetra-bromide is no longer used.

The substitute dye, fades upon exposure to light. Acetylene tetra-bromide that is not dyed is light amber in color.

Every source for this liquid that I've tried fades.

The recent source I found claims their product does not fade.

I have a sample on order and will test it to see if their claim is true, results will be posted.

One safety comment - be careful if you work on these gauges.

Acetylene tetra-bromide is hazardous:

Stability: Stable under normal conditions. Decomposes slowly at 50?C.
Conditions to avoid: High temperatures.
Incompatibility: Reacts with chemically active metals or strong caustics. In the presence of steam,
contact with hot iron, aluminum, and zinc may cause formation of toxic vapors. Softens or
destroys most plastics and rubbers.
Hazardous decomposition products: Upon heating to decomposition, irritant, toxic hydrogen
bromide, bromine, and carbonyl bromide fumes may evolve.
Hazardous polymerization:Will not occur.

HEALTH HAZARD DATA: Toxcity: LD50 (oral, rabbit) - 400 mg/kg
LD50 (oral,rat) - 1100 mg/kg
LD50 (dermal, rat) - 5250 mg/kg
Threshold limit value: Air: 1 ppm (14 mg/m3)
Effects of overexposure:
Eve contact: Mild irritant.
Skin contact: Moderate irritant
Skin absorption: Not likely to be absorbed in toxic amounts.
Mutagenicity: Positive in DNA repair system using Escherichia coli (10 mg/disc).
Emergency & first aid procedures:
Eye contact: Flush eyes promptly with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Get medical
attention immediately.
Skin contact: Remove all contaminated clothing including shoes. Wash skin thoroughly with mild
soap and plenty of water. If irritation persists, get medical attention. Wash clothing before re-use.
Inhalation: Remove person to fresh air. Place him in half upright position and keep him quiet and
warm. Apply artificial respiration if necessary and get medical attention.
Ingestion: If swallowed, give two glasses of water and induce vomiting. Get medical attention
immediately. Do not induce vomiting or give liquids when person is unconscious.
Note to physician: Treat symptomatically - no known antidote.

Do you have a phone number and name for the supplier, would like to purchase 4oz. Have been using fluid from MAC's Antique Auto in NY, it does not seem to face bad but evaporates.

Jim,

If the test I run shows the gauge fluid from this source doesn't fade I'll post the info.

The source I'm working with offers the fluid in 8 and 16 oz. quantities.

The 8 oz. qty. runs around $90 with a $85 hazardous material charge added by UPS (ouch).

I'll have a sample to test in a week or so.

Since this fluid is chemically identical to the original, evaporation should not be any worse than what was originally used.

The problem seems to be with the red dye used by some sources, it fades.

Hopefully this source uses a better dye.

Regards,

Dave