Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Owen,

It is refreshing to find someone who knows automotive history.

Thomas "Tommy" W. Milton (first winner of the Indy 500) had designed a front wheel drive racer and Packard's chief engineer Col. Jesse Gurney Vincent had developed a V-12 engine. Milton was commissioned by Packard to develop a FWD and the new version V-12 engine design by Cornelius "C.W." Van Ranst. But the depression killed efforts to bring it to production and Packard paid $10k to Milton and Van Ranst for the rights and the new V-12 was introduced as a RWD in 1932.

This brings me back to the X frame question because the Cord L-29 frame was designed and patented by Van Ranst. The original ladder frame during the 1927 road trials failed to keep the car from twisting and rattling. Auburn's chief engineer Herbert C. Snow was on the trip and had remembered seeing a X Frame design on the Lancia Dilambda at the 1927 New York Auto Salon. He made scale models of the frame with an X brace which worked and was incorporated in Van Ranst's design. Assuming that the 1932 Packard Twin Six frame could be a one model, one year only design (waiting on a validation)... wonder if it was originally created for the FWD engine?

By the way, the Cord L-29 is NOT the first American automobile using an X frame design as many books have written. It was the 1929 Stutz Blackhawk - again a one model one year only design (no 1930s are recorded). Blackhawk was introduced in January 1929 while the Cord in August 1929 as a 1930 model year. And neither were the "first" production X as that can be traced back to the early 1920s in France.

Part of my X frame interest is for a book and part for personal collections such as the diagrams and dimensions.

Eric Huffstutler

[*Edit Update...Think I answered my own question providing that the 1933 V12 1005-1006 Owner's Manual shows the correct chassis... that the frame is different than the 1932 version and the 1933 looks like the other models. This again leads me to believe that the design was for the FWD on the 1932 V-12 model.]

In Turnquist's book "The Packard Story", the chapter on the 10th series notes that the "10th series was designed on a new X-member frame that would remain essentially unchanged for the next two decades". The 10th thru the 14th series cars had many running gear features that were not shared with the 9th series; the braking system would be one significant example.

I think you will find quite a few people here that will argue the statement that the 10th series onwards for the next 20 years would go basically unchanged. The "X" concept, yes but design features and variants not shared between models abound (not to mention wheelbases).

So as far as the frame goes, it seems the 9th series V-12 had its own unique frame. The 8 cylinder series had a frame that carried over almost unchanged from 1932-1935 and in 1933 all models shared the same basic outline. In 1936 the design changed again.

So, I am hoping to hear from some folks I contacted that own 1932 Twin Six models and validate the unique chassis design which was most likely for the originally intended Front Wheel Drive.

Eric

Wouldn't be the only error in Turnquist's book. Also depends on what his definition of "essentially unchanged" was.

Wish I had specific knowledge to help you with your question, but I don't.

Yeah, it is kind of one of those things that was never approached before and isolated because of the scarcity of the cars. By serial number brackets (and someone else can correct me) it looks like less than 1,000 1932 V-12 were built and who knows how many still exist today? Like the mentioned Cord L-29 model FWD - there were over 5,000 built during its short run but only 8 exist today.

Several sources (which may or may not have the same original source) say 520 10th Series Twin Sixes produced. During my research on the thief-proof numbers I came across an interesting observation - during initial data gathering the highest numbered bodies were all Light Eights, but after getting some data from the Bob Bahre collection, now the 905 Dietrichs have the highest known body numbers indicating that those bodies were perhaps the last built. There are 19 32 Twin Sixes listed in my PAC member directory - reasonable to assume there might be another half-dozen or so around, some perhaps just as parts cars.

Only 8 L-29s left? I would have thought Dick Greene himself would have had that many at one time or another. The only one I ever drove was George Jepson's Murphy town car - one of 3 but the only one (with or without,I forget) sidemounts. Though I was young and pretty strong at that time, it was still an absolute BEAST to drive on crowned roads.

I am sure it was a beast - by size and weight alone I heard when new published driving tests were not very favorable. Was hard to handle over 70 mph. Under 30mph the steering took some muscle so were not cars for women of the time to drive.

The 1932 V-12 was 9th series, not 10th. What does the book say about their numbers? This would be model numbers 905 and 906.

Ahh - stupid mistake on my part, sorry. 549 1932 Twin Sixes produced. The numbers I gave on those remaining was correct for the 905-906.

If I may interupt just a bit, I'm thinking the 9th Twin Six cars did not have the angle-set hypoid rear axle. I wouldn't raise my right hand to that, yet I believe the 900 series did indeed incorporate that feature. Why bring it up? it would explain the unique geography at the rear portion of the frame.

In "Packard: A History Of The Car And The Company" by Kimes, there's 2 lovely photos of 9th and 10th prototype chassis. Pgs 402 and 403 show the 9th, including the 3rd pedal for a vacuum operated clutch. On pg 412 is a very nice shot of the 10th which is more what we enthusiasts of the time are used to seeing. However, I don't see the rear axle.

I've seen more than 8 different L-29s myself. That number must be related to something very specific?

Ok, sorry to butt in...

That's a good question about the Angleset differential in the Twin Six, I don't know the answer and it's worthy of some investigation. From what I've read, both the Light Eight and Twin Six got the new 3-speed synchro trans from the get-go, but the DeLuxe Eight began production with 1 or the other (or perhaps both) holdover 4-speed transmissions.

Though I didn't start the thread, from my viewpoint no apologies needed for "butting in", as your comments are relevant to the subject, the 9th Series Twin Six.