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Hi Pre War Team

A good friend has encountered some serious knocking coming from his 34 (1100) Standard Eight engine. Oil pan removal has revealed plenty of metal, big-end bearing damage, journal damage but fortunately no hole in the crankcase (you can be lucky)! We don't suspect main bearing damage but the crankshaft is coming out soon to fully investigate.

Options include re-babbiting of the main and big-end bearings.

Other option? I understand that later Super 8 320ci engine (37-39) had easy to obtain slipper bearings. Is it a viable option to machine the 34 320ci engine to fit the later bearings?

Or are there other bearing options?

(I have just noticed a 733 on e-bay claiming to have slipper bearings)

Please let me have your thoughts and experience.

Best regards

Been thru this a number of times. When I did my 34 1100 engine (at 89,000 miles) it was after the faintest of rod knock noticeable at a warm idle, though oil pressure was still acceptable. #8 rod showed some babbitt failure and I redid the engine sticking with the original babbitt.

MANY years back when you could still find original rod bearings for the 35-39 320 engines, one alternative was to find a set of rods from those engines to replace the 34 and back rods, but since the 80s or so those bearings were unfindable. Those bearings were flanged to control end play. I now believe one of the major Packard vendors has had them remanufactured.

The third alternative, which has been widely documented over the years involved the conversion of the 34 and earlier rods to take a modern simple insert (PM me if you want some more info). This took a bit of machining on the rods, on some conversions it required notching the rod bolts, and as the bearings didn't have the thrust flanges to ride on the crank cheeks, nubs or buttons were welded on the rod side faces and machined to control end play. Some people swore by these conversions, others had buckets of troubles, the differences perhaps depending on the skill of the mechanic doing the conversion.

I drive my car sensibly in recognition of it's original capabilities and thus stayed with babbitted rods and mains.

I was kicked off the AACA site for discussing the connecting rod bearing failure problem on pre 1935 Packards.

This subject gets people VERY upset. And for good reason. A lot of restorers recognize that MOST people paying big bucks for restorations know what they want. They want a car that looks pretty, and can win prizes at car shows.

Many restorers recognize most people today couldnt care less how the car actually runs, or what its techical capabilities are. They have a good point - would be unethical to add to the costs, to build into the motor technical capabilities the customer couldn't care less about. No restorer or friends of restorers wants to hear the technical facts on this issue - what happens when you try and drive a poured-babbit equipped motor at anything APPROACHING modern speeds.

The sad fact is, pouring babbit into connecting rods, instead of or in place of a proper "slipper" or "insert" type bearing, virtually guarantees eventual bearing failure, which means VERY costly crank-shaft damage. The laws of physics will not respect the desires of ill-educated back-woods type mentalities who are just trying to make a fast buck restoring cars for "show".

Packard and its partner in bearing development (Federal Mogul) put a lot of engineering effort into solving the rod-bearing failure problem. In one test I read, General Motors found that at 75 mph, a non "insert/slipper" Packard would develop rod bearing failure after approx. 2,500 miles.

The "last gasp" of the poured babbet rod bearing was in the 1934 model year, when Packard went to finned connecting rods, full flow oil coolers, and full-flow oil filters.

It didnt work. High speed "runs" on Packard's famous test track made it clear there was only one solution - the "insert" type rod bearing.

In my own personal experience with my own '34 Packard Super Eight, I can assure you I tried EVERYTHING avail. in poured babbit bearing technology. No matter what methodolgy of using poured babbit I tried, (this was in the mid 1950's) I would get rod bearing failure in short order after high speed driving.

In late 1934, Packard took a off-the-shelf production 1935 Packard Standard Eight, and demonstrated with the new "slipper"/insert type rod bearings, the car could be run at over 90 mph for over 25,000 miles, after which, the engine was torn down, and in the words of the engineering report " could have done the test again without replacement of parts'.

Bottom line - "you pays your money and you takes your chances".

I strongly recommend that if you want to actually DRIVE and enjoy your Packard, dont let someone ruin it by pouring babbbit into the con rods. Find someone who KNOWS what they are doing, and have the rods machined to accept modern (meaning 1935 or newer thinking) insert / slipper rod bearings.

Russell - This is indeed a volatile topic that I will not debate, however, I will add two comments - first, I have firsthand knowledge of a project underway to provide new 35-39 style insert bearings with the original style flange. This is the first publicity leak on this project (and I mean new, within the last 30 days), contact me directly if you are considering going this route. Anyone else interested in new Original style bearings is invited to contact me as well. There will be no never ending "waiting list" for this project. The bearings will be available, period. No stories.
The second comment is I happen to have a set of uncut original rods for this original (later style) insert bearing. It is my rods and original bearings that are being used to validate this new production. flackmaster@sbcglobal.net directly please.
This oughta' to stir the (babbit) pot....

You won't get any pot-stirring from me. And as I remember it was about a year ago that I heard from Max Merritt's boys at Hershey that the bearings would be available soon.

"Soon" as in 'when', 'what year', 'mabe', and 'wait'. Thats what instigated this project. Also 'cost'. Yes, this is venting.

Hey, I'm just the messenger.

Thank you Peter, David and Owen.

I don't want to be part of a 'babbitt stew' (or a stir fry either). I do understand the passions that get stirred over originality and modifications. My motive is to see a great car back on the road, running reliably, pleasing the owner and anyone who gets a chance to see it.

I also don't like to see dodgy workmanship or wasted money.

I will be meeting my friend at the workshop on Thursday. The engine is now out of the car and believe the crankshaft has been removed. We will be discussing the options suggested and come to a decision.

We welcome the information provided. and David, the prospect of the new bearings is certainly of interest. I will be in contact.

In the late 60s, as a young lad, I had the opportunity of listening to numerous conversations with two much older Packard owners that both had 34 7 pass sedans. I had the pleasure of hanging around with these legends as part of my Packard education and travel in both vehicles. One was owned by the founder of the Packard Club in Aust (a Super 8 1105 which had done 350,000 miles), the other a Standard 8 1102 with 600,000 miles!

I too salute the red hexagon

It must have been great to have listed to those two older Packard owners years back, don't you wish you had a tape recorder back then? I also missed an opportunity at the PAC Centennial celebration in Warren in 1999; there were perhaps 18-24 retired Packard Detroit factory workers present, and I only found fleeting moments to chat with a few of them - what they knew and remembered is perhaps now lost to history. If I recall correctly, one of the many very moving moments at the Centennial was when these fellows, put out of work by the plant closure, were given Packard retirement pins made by PAC in lieu of the recognition they should have received at the time. Boy, I wish I could have cornered every one of them for an hour or so with a recorder!

My condolences to those who missed or couldn't attend the Centennial event, the emotions, the people, and the cars including some we didn't even realize still existed were almost beyond description.

Re: Venting - no problem on being a messenger, it just that getting rod bearings for this project has been an ordeal.