Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

I'm with Hank, might be interested, pending specifics

I look forward to your progress! This is great!

cli55er Quote:

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Before I post the mockup D-side, I should explain something.

Many of the old posters on PackardInfo know my background, but probably many more recent posters do not.

Among other things, from 1974 to 1981, I was the owner, operator and "chief floor sweeper" for H-O Racing Specialties, a high performance Pontiac aftermarket parts supplier. H-O also had their own line of HiPo parts.

During that time, H-O was a national warehouse distributor of J.R. Headers, a well known and respected company making headers for many brands. H-O Racing specialized in Pontiacs and that's what we sold: mostly GTOs and Trans Am Firebirds, a couple of very popular muscle cars of the era.

H-O probably sold thousands of J.R. headers to Pontiac enthusiasts during that time. In addition, due to my relationship with J.R., I could have them make custom headers for all sorts of race cars and odd ball combos, which I did.

H-O also had a small install shop (not our main business) in which we installed many headers into mostly Firebirds and there were some custom ones too, most from J.R. under my engineering direction.

Later, in 1977, I realized that there was a need for a low profile header for the Trans Ams of the era because every production header, including J.R., would get the bottom tubes smashed in whenever the driver went over a speed bump or some similar obstacle.

So, I used my 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4-speed as the prototype vehicle to locally and custom develop a set of headers which would not protrude below the front subframe of the Gen-2 Firebird and therefore would not be worthless after the first encounter with same.

As a small company, H-O had to fund the development and production of those headers, called "H-O Tri-Ys", no inexpensive feat for a self-funded company. H-O then sold about 200 of those headers to Gen-2 Firebird/Trans Am customers with 100% satisfaction. BUT, we could only order those "Tri-Ys" in batches of 50!!!

Given the above, I say:

1) I know about high performance headers from hard earned hands on and business experience.

2) I know that it takes to develop and then sell custom headers.

3) I have no illusion about maybe selling a bunch of Packard V-8 headers to make money. I'm not doing this project for that reason. I'm doing this project because I want a set for my Panther. If others want to tag along and help reduce the unit cost, then that's great.

My next post will be about the D-side mockup.

Craig

I'm strapping in Craig!

I tickled to see your Panther project moving forward again. That week I spent in Pahrump turning wrenches at your direction years ago rebuilding my engine convinced me that know your way around an automobile. Should I pull the trigger on my roadster resto-rod, I'm thinking headers on such a Packard V8 would be awesome (the 400 is off limits). That said, aesthetics and functionality must co-exist peaceably in an engine compartment for me.

I wait with anticipation! Great background and I fully trust you will find a good flow on these. These should really open up my cam that jack did!!

As promised, here are some digipix of the completed Driver-side mockup. The mockup is to determine:

1) feasibility (can it even be done?)
2) best pipe configuration
3) clearance of known stock subsystems

For this mockup, I used 1-1/2In and 2In I.D. PVC pipe, 90-deg and 45-deg PVC connectors, some duct tape for non-standard bends and 1/2In plywood for the header flange. This is a "conservative" approach because the 1-1/2In I.D. PCV pipe is actually 1.910In O.D. and the 2In I.D. PCV pipe is 2.385In O.D. Since the mild steel pipe is measured O.D., the planned 1-3/4In end pipes and 2-1/4In center (siamesed) pipe are smaller than the PVC pipe. Therefore, if the PVC mockup fits, then the steel pipe prototype and production version will fit. The PVC connectors are even bigger. The steel flange will be 3/8In, so the same argument applies to the 1/2In plywood flange used in the mockup.

Click on the picture for a larger image.

Starter clearance:


Collector to stock exhaust pipe through frame hole:


Left side view:


Right rear view:


I have many other pictures if you have specific questions.

Next will be the mockup of the passenger side which should be a lot easier since there's no starter or steering gear box.

After that will be a prototype made out of mild steel. This will be used to make the production jig and check fitment on my 1956 400 and 1955 Patrician.

Craig

How are you addressing the gearshift linkage on the frame side. Looks a bit close in that area from what I can see & was one of the things I ran into messing with my brake version.

HH56 Quote:

Howard,

Not an issue with 56 pushbutton shift or the Panther which is 4-speed manual with floor shift and hydraulic clutch. I'll check my 55 Pat tomorrow morning when it's cooler and get back to you.

Craig

Interesting.

I see part of the steering column for a 56, how would it be different for a 55?

I assume this is all one piece, how do you put one on with everything bolted together? Is there any weight/stress issues, if one piece, vrs stock system?

Not being informed on such things, what does this do for the engine? What do you do to the rest of the exhaust system?

not seeing actual numbers on a dyno make it hard to tell real world gain. Theory has it...30hp gain, from the start of this thread.

but Craig's post with all the numbers and diameters and values already means he knows a hell of a lot more then i do about making a pair.

I wonder if the headers will go with my cam...have no clue, but i had no clue if the valve springs i picked would work right...and they did. (Craig, i can supply cam specifications and spring specs if needed.)

my guess is the headers will go well with a wide variety of motor setups on the V8. cam/spring work or not. anything has to flow better then the stock system.

not to mention the routing of the pipe under the motor on the driver's side....what a PITA.

i like the mock up Craig, as long as it clears all my linkage (good question HH) and 55 specific parts and doesn't cost a billion dollars i'll get a pair. i know it would cost me more to have someone local figure it out and i would just bail at that point. your providing a great service to us V8 boys.

i am envious of the steering box....wish mine came apart like that...would make removing the body a hell of a lot easier!

my one question:

wondering how well the starter will do wihtout a heat sheld.

thanks for the hard work Craig!

Hank