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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#31
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Jim L. in OR
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Actually, I should have mentioned that my main reason for seeking the double action pump is that I was told by my mechanic that whatever oil pump is on the car now, it doesn't have a vacuum segment. So all that powers the wipers at present is the manifold vacuum from the engine.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 15:01
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#32
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Owen_Dyneto
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OK, thanks Jim - I wasn't aware that you no longer had the oil pump driven vacuum pump. Here's a rather unsharp photo of the correct original Hudson/Nash double action pump installed on a 5699.

Attach file:



jpg  (89.46 KB)
177_55f87eec65e56.jpg 840X828 px

Posted on: 2015/9/15 15:26
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#33
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Jim L. in OR
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I'don't know O_D, it looks pretty sharp and clear on my monitor. And, it looks just like the picture on eBay of the one I bought. Thank you for posting it as it gives me a good idea about the plumbing.

Thanks again -

J.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 18:14
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#34
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Jim L. in OR
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Quote:

JW wrote:
Here's a thought: If your engine has crankcase blow-by, it may be exiting from the pump vent and settling on the outside of the pump. Blow-by will escape from the engine at every opening and seal. To check remove the oil filler breather and run the engine. If vapor comes out you have blow-by.

(o{}o)


Thank you again for posting this. I would have never known or thought of checking this.

I ran the engine for about 10 minutes just now and fortunately, there is no anything coming out the oil filler pipe. I thought that would be the case as I've put about 3,000 miles on the car since we got it running and the mesh in the cap looks just as clean as it did after the first time.

Thanks again for your help with this - it is much appreciated as is all the ideas and experiences of everyone else who have contributed to this episode.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 18:23
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#35
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JWL
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You are welcome. I have received a lot of help from folks on this site, and wanted to return the favors.

The reason I offered my suggestion is the deposits on the pump look like oil, and not gasoline. Gas will evaporate but oil will not.

We will all know more when you do the exam on the removed pump.

(o{}o)

Posted on: 2015/9/16 9:59
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#36
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Jim L. in OR
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Quote:

JW wrote:
The reason I offered my suggestion is the deposits on the pump look like oil, and not gasoline. Gas will evaporate but oil will not.

We will all know more when you do the exam on the removed pump.

(o{}o)


I know and that has bothered me from the start. Which is why I originally though that the gas was being replenished by syphon action from the fuel filter bowl. Curiosity about the oil source is running neck and neck with the gas.

As you say, the exam will hopefully answer all our questions.

An email yesterday said the pump would arrive today but no such luck. Coming from the mid-west would make today's arrival with free shipping really too good to be true.

Thanks again for your help, JW.

Posted on: 2015/9/16 15:05
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#37
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Deacon Bill Ladroga
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I had a similar problem with the 352 cid Packard V-8 fuel pump in my 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk. Turned out to be leaking around the pivot pin in the for the pump arm. I guess they wear out after a while.

Posted on: 2015/9/21 13:55
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#38
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Jim L. in OR
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Quote:

56GHMD wrote:
I had a similar problem with the 352 cid Packard V-8 fuel pump in my 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk. Turned out to be leaking around the pivot pin in the for the pump arm. I guess they wear out after a while.


Thank you 56GHMD for that posting. I hadn't considered that the pivot pin could be at fault. When I do the Postmortem I'll be sure to check it out. However normal wear and tear I can understand but mine was 5 years old and had clocked about 3K miles. That seems a little "new" for it to have any problems.

The new pump arrived so this weekend I took the old pump off and put the new one on. I hope that Wednesday I'll have the time to take a look at the old one.

We'll soon see.

Posted on: 2015/9/21 14:43
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#39
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Jim L. in OR
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As I just mentioned; the new pump arrived and this weekend I swapped them out.

I haven't done anything more to the old one as I wanted to do the Postmortem in one shot. One thing I did notice was that it took forever to drain all the gas out of the old pump. I mean really, I wouldn't have thought that it could hold that much gas. That to my inexperienced eye seems to support Howard's idea that there was a hole in the diaphragm.

One thing I did overlook was to see if there was enough room for the Dual Action pump under the A/C Compressor Bracket.

There wasn't.

All in all, I'm going to have to take an inch to an inch and a half "bite" out of the bracket for it to fit. At least I didn't have the system charged up so removing it, while a pain in the neck, lower back etc, wasn't all that big a deal. I'm going to leave it off for now. I'll re-install after I rebuild the new pump with alcohol tolerant parts.

I'll post some pictures of the new pump installed, shortly.

I did briefly start and run the engine. It seemed to run stronger but that may be my imagination. A test drive this afternoon will see if it's really smoother.

We had 29 days above 90 degrees here in Portland and even cooler temps and prolonged periods of not running the wipers usually resulted in my having to turn the wipers on and "help" them move back and forth until they could do it on their own. The wiper motor is a 5 year old Max Merritt bolt on unit.

This time, as soon as I turned on the switch, I had very purposeful wipers - even on dry glass.

More after the test drive,

Jim

Posted on: 2015/9/21 15:01
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#40
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Jim L. in OR
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I was finally able to take the '55 out for a test drive this evening and I must say it performed better than it has for quite some time.

I headed out to my usual Packard Proving Ground and even before I got there it was clear that the stuttering and bucking have been relegated to the past. Sure, steady acceleration and the most important part which was steady speed driving - turned out to be a non-event. Just quiet power - which certainly goes a long way towards building confidence in the car.

Tomorrow I'm giving it another little test as I have a doctor's appointment out in the Gateway District which is about 18 miles each way.

I want to thank JW, Ross, O_D, duane.g, Riki, bobp, 56GHMD and Howard for all your help, suggestions and good wishes.

I've attached a picture of the finished product but I won't get to the Postmortem of the old pump until Wednesday.

For the Future: If your V8 is stumbling, stammering and jerking when at steady speed, you might want to consider taking a peek at the old pump.

Attach file:



jpg  (144.98 KB)
3087_5600f72569e7a.jpg 1280X958 px

Posted on: 2015/9/22 1:37
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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