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A local Canadian-Estonian named M?rt Kirik has also investigated the possibility of using methanol or ethanol as a car fule. I searched the internet for some of his articles but found only thouse published in Estonian newspapers, and that would be no help here since Im the only one that could read the contens.
He was really found of the idea of using ethanol as a fule for cars, he did a lot of research on that topic when he lived in Canada. I have personally met whit him and he told me a lot of the ethanol based fule and the good things that come whit it.

But I have a some conserns about the new fule standarts that allow to use more ethanol in fules. I mean maybe for a low compression flathead engine it would be ideal but
what about high compression engines and the fact that it would eat away all the gasgets in the carburetor?
I still havent read the hole topic but I try to keep track.

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I think my packard has more square footage than some of my early apartments. A packard motor home maybe the best of both worlds?

From post #52 above:
"Thats what Brazil uses; Sugar Cane. ... poured the filtered juice into a beaker and boiled it. Collecting the vapor in another beaker....then poured it into the gas tank of a VW bug and drove off. ... Nothing fancy, and they didn't appear to wait for anything to ferment."

Ok. But did the documentary ever state if the end product was in fact some type of alcohol or perhaps someother substance such as a vegetable oil??? I sincerely doubt that it was an alcohol.

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I believe BigKev's post describes a distillation process which would yield ethanol, not oil (as in bio-diesel). Also, if they put it in a VW bug it would need to be a form of alcohol fuel, as I don't think they ever produced a diesel powered VW bug. Diesel Rabbits, Golfs and vans yes, but not "bugs", unless you count the very latest front engine, front drive bug bodied Golf.

Yeah not sure. These bugs didnt look that new. But never know what kind of motors they may have in them in South America were some of the bugs were made and assembled.

Either way, most interesting topic. I'll check around here with some of the local oldtimers to see what the "cain breaks" are (actual street here named Cain Break (37187) and the mollasses press that was down in town. All defunct now. Maybe don't need any corn at all. Just sugar.

Hello All:

The momentum against ethanol subsidies seems to be mounting.

There is some new hope that ethanol subsidies may end soon. I did not know this, but the massive ethanol subsidy ($7.7 BILLION) last year is up for renewal in the next 30 days.

Reuters newswire is reporting, "...A bipartisan group of U.S. senators called for an end to a tariff on ethanol imports and subsidies to ethanol blenders on Tuesday, saying the program is too expensive and increases dependency on foreign oil.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AT5MK20101130

And you won't believe who is behind this. "Senators Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat from California, Jon Kyl, a Republican from Arizona, and 15 colleagues wrote a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Minority leader Mitch McConnell to urge halting the "fiscally irresponsible and environmentally unwise" tax credit and tariff."

Some 60 (divergent) groups have also sent letters to the Senate to end this subsidy including, get this; MoveOn.org, The Sierra Club, (tea-party aligned) Freedom Works, Natural Resources Defense Council, Environmental Working Group, International Dairy Foods Association and Grocery Manufacturers Association.

Take a moment to read this editorial from today's Chicago Tribune:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-oped-1130-byrne-20101130,0,6661567.column

Do you want ethanol out of our gasoline supply and your Packard?
Do you want to save $7.7 BILLION annually in ethanol subsidies?

Then contact your US Senator and tell them to let the VEETC (Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit) expire and not renew it. If your senator listens and does nothing, then this subsidy will die - now.

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2 points responding to earlier posts:

1. I believe "Ethyl" referred to gasoline containing tetraethyl lead, not ethyl alcohol. The Ethyl Corp was started in conjunction with investors and backing by Chas. Kettering and GM to provide research and production of enhanced octane level fuels for higher compression engines in the 1920s.

2. Hydrogen, when available for fuel (and it will be eventually) will likely be used for far more efficient fuel cells driving electric motors, not internal combustion engines. There willstill be petro-fuel for our antiques:

It's easy to convert right now to clean burning LP gas. LPG as used in vehicles is a by-product of natural gas production, as well as gasoline production, and is actually a mix of propane, butane, propylene, buytlene, and odorant additives. In just the last 3 yrs we now realize that the US may have at least 100 yrs of natural gas supply; we are the Saudi Arabia of gas (not to mention coal).

Google: Marcellus Shale. A friend with 150 ac of hunting land 20 mi from here was just offered $900k + royalties for drilling rights. There is a gigantic reserve that extends from W Va to Ohio to PA to NY. Up to a couple years ago, they didn't know how to economically get it out, and now they do: horizontal hydro-fracturing. They are actively drilling for gas here right now, 15 miles away. The whole area is in a boom-town mentality, this find will totally change the US energy picture. The major oil companies only just recently started buying out the gas producers, who are almost totally independent; Big Oil had not been a part of this at all. Now they are. No need to drill for oil.

BTW octane for LPG is 110, and it's clean combustion results in less engine wear, due to less dilution of the oil by carbon and other by-products. I drove an LPG Olds Toronado 425 in the 80s and it ran better than stock. All my old cars will be converted.

VERY good and informative Randerson. Thank u.

It does beg the question:
Why couldn't a home owner drill for his own gas in the shale for household use???

During to 70's and 80's i was in and out of rural eastern ohio alot. There were 2 or 3 houses i visited there that had natural gas wells in their door yard. Usualy just maybe 10 or 12 feeet from the house. THey used it for everything even refrigeration.

$900K/150 ac. = $6k/ac. That's about the top end going price for rural Tn. land that is mostly useless for anyhting but keeping neighbores far away. The royality part mite look good (depending on how contract is written).

I'm just a little too far west relative to the shale map i googled.

Keep us posted on any engine conversions u do. I've never done such a conversion.

Only way to get gas from the Marcellus is difficult and expensive, which is why they couldn't do it until recently. The process of fracturing layers of shale to release gas is known as hydrofracking. They vertical drill 5000+ ft then go horizontal for 1000s of ft, and inject a secret proprietary mix (Halliburton developed) of millions of gallons of water, sand and unknown chemicals. The latter is why many are up in arms. Many wells in PA have been permanently contaminated.

The movie "Gasland", winner Best Documentary at Sundance this year, shows what can happen to drinking water in gas drilling areas, filmed by a guy 30 miles from here, for example methane gas coming out of a sink tap which can be lit. A bill's been introduced in Congress trying to force them to reveal what chemicals are in it, but the natural gas industry was totally exempted from essentially ALL EPA regs back that apply to oil drilling in the early 2000s by a bill pushed by the gas industry... hard to believe but true.

While you can't drill yourself, you get royalties and also free gas for life under the contract you sign with the producer. If you don't sign one, they can take the gas anyway under what's known as Consolidation, if 60% of your neighbors sign. They just horizontally drill under your surface property from a location that's not on your land. As you can imagine all this has caused rather a lot of controversy around here.

LPG conversion kits are readily available and been around for decades, about $800-1000 total and mostly tank and mods to the carburetor, fairly simple technology. Lots of info on the web on it.