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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#11
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JWL
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I seem to recall that there may have been a posting by Ross Miller (Speedwell Garage) on servicing and testing the hydraulic lifters. Perhaps someone here can point Rockabilly to it.

Posted on: 11/11 13:33
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#12
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Rockabilly
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Quote:

JWL wrote:
I seem to recall that there may have been a posting by Ross Miller (Speedwell Garage) on servicing and testing the hydraulic lifters. Perhaps someone here can point Rockabilly to it.


Thank you JWL! I have already watched that video several times as a matter of fact. He has some fantastic videos. It was using a sweet contraption he created to test the lifters, but unfortunately I don't have a similar tool. I'd also love some input or direction on getting the valves/lifters out of the block without damaging them. Or really any direction from after the head is off to putting the head back on.

Posted on: 11/11 13:39
Catch me on Instagram @rockabillydad or @pastironworks
1951 Packard 300
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#13
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JWL
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The hydraulic lifters are in two parts: the tappets and the inner lifters. The tappets cannot be removed with the camshaft in the engine. The inner lifter parts should be able to be easily removed from the tappets once the valves are out. Hope this helps.

Posted on: 11/11 13:47
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#14
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Rockabilly
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Quote:

JWL wrote:
The hydraulic lifters are in two parts: the tappets and the inner lifters. The tappets cannot be removed with the camshaft in the engine. The inner lifter parts should be able to be easily removed from the tappets once the valves are out. Hope this helps.


Any tips removing the valves?

Posted on: 11/11 14:14
Catch me on Instagram @rockabillydad or @pastironworks
1951 Packard 300
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#15
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Rockabilly
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I just went and downloaded/printed the service manuals in the literature archive. Wow, that is incredibly helpful. Any words of wisdom about getting the valves safely out of the engine without dropping anything into the oil pan would be appreciated. lol

Posted on: 11/11 14:47
Catch me on Instagram @rockabillydad or @pastironworks
1951 Packard 300
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#16
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JeromeSolberg
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The main thing is this:

You use the spring compressor thing to compress the springs. You don't have to take off the manifolds, you can do it through the fender access panel, which let's you reach underneath the manifolds.

After you compress the springs you need to take the little "keepers" out. It's easiest if you have one of those little "magnets on a stick", typically a magnet on a little extendable rod.

However, you want to make sure the "keepers" don't fall into the oil holes in that gallery. Otherwise the keepers might drop into the oil pan. You will want to stuff the oil holes with a rag. You get some of those shop rags, you know, the red ones. It's easiest if you cut a few of them up into some squares, I think if I remember correctly something like 3" square. Then stuff them into the oil holes.

After you get out the keepers everything should come out pretty easy. You have to use a little bit of muscle to force the springs out past the lifters, but not much. Then the valves come out the top. Make sure you keep all the valves in order, so you can put the valves back in the same place you took them out. I put them in little zip-loc bags, one assembly (valve spring, valve, keepers, valve spring top and bottom saddle) per bag, numbered per cylinder, noting that intake and exhaust valves are different sizes.

Before you do all of this, if you haven't taken off the head, it might be a good thing to do a compression test on all the cylinders. If the compression comes out low on a cylinder, you can try putting a bit of oil into that cylinder, if it gets better then that's rings, if it doesn't then that's valves.

If it's rings, well, you'd have to take off the oil pan and various things to do that, but it can be done in the car if you really want. IF it's valves, you have some options there, all the way down to just touching up the seats with one of those hand-held valve seat lapping tools. It's also good to check the valve guide clearance, if any of the valve guides are "loose", well then those can be replace in the car as well. There are some threads on that, but the main thing is that you can do it with some threaded rod and some wrenches.

Hopefully all you have to do, though, is just replace a few lifters.

To put the valves back in, it's the reverse process, but note that it's easiest if you get some grease and put grease on the keepers, it helps to hold them in place as you de-compress the valve springs. Again, make sure you stuff the holes so you don't accidentally drop the keepers into the oil pan.

If I remember correctly, the simplest method is to put in the top valve spring saddle, then the valve spring, then the spring, then the bottom valve spring saddle. That can be a bit tricky but there is a method where they "snap in" pretty simply.

Posted on: 11/11 15:10
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#17
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JeromeSolberg
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Oh, I remember again what to do:

To take them off:

1) Take the keepers out.
2) Take the valve out the top.
3) Take the bottom saddle out.
4) Take the valve spring and top saddle out.
5) Take the lifter out.

To put them off:

1) put the lifter in
2) put the top saddle and valve spring in
3) put the bottom saddle in
4) then put the valve in, lining it up with the saddles
5) Then compress the spring and put the keeper in.

Your mileage may vary.

Posted on: 11/11 15:16
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#18
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PackardDon
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To stop the keepers going into the pan, buy some rubber plugs that most hardware or automotive stores carry or just use a piece of paper towel, making sure to get it all out when done.

For testing the lifters, it was decades ago that I did it but it doesn't take any special equipment even though the shop manual shows a special tool. The tool would make it easier but it is not needed. Don't clean anything in gasoline but use a good solvent and wear gloves as solvents can cause permanent skin damage that goes system deep as happened to my brother so that any petroleum product now blisters and takes his skin off!

The plunger pulls out so remove that and make sure that the ball at the bottom is free and soak in the solvent while apart. Inspect the surfaces for scuffs or scratches and if there are any, those may need to be replaced.

Don't mix up the plungers between their bodies and be sure to mark the lifter assemblies so that you can put them back in the same positions when reinstalled.

Dry thoroughly with compressed air, reassemble with clean engine oil. For testing, I had a pan of clean oil and used a pump pliers to squeeze down the plunger and with the tip in oil, I let it back up to draw some in, then did it again to be sure that there was a stiff resistance once it was filled and compressed. If little or no resistance, then the check ball is still stuck or has a damaged or dirty seat so will need further testing and cleaning. Be careful not to let it suck in air while testing. Not that it hurts anything but it will negate the test.

Posted on: 11/11 16:51
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#19
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JeromeSolberg
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Ross made a video of how to test hydraulic lifters:

Speedwell Garage Hydraulic Lifter Test, postwar Packard

Posted on: 11/11 18:24
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Re: 1951 300 ticking noise
#20
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Rockabilly
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Thank you guys so very much for all of the info!!!

Posted on: 11/14 8:23
Catch me on Instagram @rockabillydad or @pastironworks
1951 Packard 300
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