Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Fred Kanter is correct on the documentation u are using for spec's. That .0127" gap in the chart is highly suspect of a typo error and listed to 4our places past the decimal is ridiculous.

NOTE that .018" is a standard, rule of thumb, widely and generaly accepted points gap measurement to use when a lack of any official specification or contradiction among such specs exists. The .018" point gap will apply (as a solid educated guess) for any all each and every engine ever made at any time anywhere by any manufacturer.

Since there seems to be a controversy over the point gap just set them at .018". It'll run just fine.

Of all the engines i've set points gap on over the last 40+ years from lowly chain saw engines to common everyday garden variety auto enignes to V twin engines to even a couple of radial aircraft engines the .018" works. I've never seen specs for ANY engine with point gap settings under .016 or over .022".

Can't go wrong with PackardV8s recommendation of 0.018". The A.E.A. manual lists 0.017" (single value, no range) for all Auto-Lite IGP series distributors as used in 50s Packards.

E-ignition on SIX volt systems:

I am continualy astonished that there are so many people (NOT just Packard owners) who obviously have more than sufficient mechanical skills, to the extent that they can install an e-ignition system, but then turn around and always use the "i don't like to mess with points" excuse for converting to e-ignition.

SUch reasoning is absurd and irrational.*

The general and fundemental requirement of any e-ignition system to function AT ALL is a MINIMUM of 5.2 to 5.5 volts. Unless something has changed over the last 4 or 5 years.

This entire e-ignition fad has reached levels of mass mania.

*Edit: There mite be an exception or two such as flat head F V8's where the points are damned near impossible to access without removing the entire distributor.

Quote:

I'll second that. What could be easier than points on a Packard. As mentioned the Ford V-8 is an exception but for the Packard engines the job is simple and the system works fine. Why mess with a good thing?

Fred: I meant no marks on the balancer, sorry. I don't pay attention to the dizzy marks at all, i meant trying to time it with a timing light because the marks on the balancer are long gone.

I got that chart from here, like the 47-49 tune up guide or something. I had no idea it wasn't Packard supplied.


Everyone has something that they have just bad luck at. I had no problem getting this motor out, overhauling all the little things, getting the things i couldn't overhaul done right, repairing the electric clock so it works great, rewiring half the car. Points? Even if they work, i'm always thinking they're wrong.

Ever since my first dirt-bike at about 14, I've had points just do me wrong. Bad condensers out of the box, points on my boat that would get you running just to get you in the middle of the lake and leave you (and i had that distributor professionally checked and redone twice! We never did see why it did that but the pertronix in the same dizzy worked for years!), etc, etc.

It's not that they're all that complicated or i don't understand them, we just don't get along. So i tend towards e-ignition for the simplicity of connecting them and set it and forget it forever timing, etc.

I mean, i gapped these ones, bench tested them, and got spark and then nothing when on the car until i shot from the hip and just bumped them out.

Anyone else would just throw them in and go! I'm willing to learn, but i'm not blaming the e-ignition for my distrust of something that i've never got the grasp of.

Anyways i'll set the plug gap and maybe mosey up to my dad's today and have him gap the points at .018 and re-time as best i can. He's out in the country so it's easy to do test drives without as much traffic as i'm getting here. I do feel confident i'm on the cusp of solving the issue.

Then to get the manifold BACK out and milled and change gaskets again. Ugh.

Of dirt bike and fishing boats:

Both of those were probably Magneto ignition and a real pain in the ass to service points. I'll even guess the boat motor was a Chrysler. Sure sounds like one.

Comparison of failures of any motorcycle or fishing boat components to such widely accepted and broadly used compnents of popular passenger cars is not realistic.

Motorcycles and boat motors even when brand new are by their very nature little more than just short service life utility grade junk. They are built flimsy and with very little testing. They have to be LIGHT weight. Like a chain saw.

Your ignition points experience with the dirt bike and boat motor should not resemble that of any popular car or lite truck.

Be sure to check the upper bushing in distributor for wear as Fred Kanter outlined above. Significant wear at that point will cause dramatic and sporatic point gap changes.

BTW, If u still have the dirt bike and fishing boat there is an easy RELIABLE fix for those.

Dirt bike has gone by the wayside years and years ago, once fixed it was a reliable 69 honda enduro that 4 kids drove around a farm for years. Just getting it going that sucked.

Boat motor was a Chevy 4 cylinder 153cid standard ignition setup. Was just a huge PITA. Would run in the test tank for like 45minutes. Get to the lake, fire it up, run great, warm it up, seemed safe, get up to cruising speed....start to sputter....then died. happened to us like 3 times, each time thinking we had solved the problem in between. I don't work with outboard motors, having heard the horror stories that you describe, and watching my dad try in vain to get a 50HP Johnson back to life as a kid.

The eventual solution was to sell the boat. Best move ever, made room for the Packard. But the pertronix solved it after checking and fixing everything else. I'm sure there was a GM HEI solution or something, but i just put it in and used the boat for a couple years trouble free.

Both of my current bikes are e-ignition from the factory, one an 81, and one an 04. The 81 is a triple, and would have 3 sets of points if a year earlier. I do however have a 6v 2 stroke Czech bike (Jawa/CZ) with points that can be a pita to start if it hasn't been run in awhile, even with the battery on the tender. Everything has to be perfect for that thing to run, it's pretty much a big chainsaw with oil injection.

Come to think of it, all my jetskis have been CDI ignition, no points. they never really gave me any trouble unless the box seal was broke and they got wet.

I know points are reliable, I just don't feel that I'M the person that makes them that way.

I hear the points and condensers you get these days are made in China, cheap and unreliable. So unless you get NOS American made ones it might be better just to go to electronic.

My favorite trick is to get a Ford or Chrysler electronic module from the junkyard for $5 bucks and wire it thru the points. Very little cost in time and money, does not mess up your authentic distributor, and your points last practically forever.

That was Eric's approach, was it not? I also know he was using pontiac HEIs in Packards, which is about as common and reliable electronic ignition as you can get. 12v neg ground only of course, and ugly as sin in a straight eight engine bay.

Believing that you and points "don;t get along" and you have some magic negative effect on them is like believing in ghosts. I had a friend who told me that her watches never kept time. One morning at 10 am I asked to see her watch, it was running but not wound. Sure enough, at 1pm or so it stopped. See!! she said. The problem is that she always "thought" she wound it.

Some people do not know how to set points correctly with a feeler guage. Some people do not tighten the hold down screw. Some people get grease on the points which causes failure. Some clean the points with sandpaper

Back in the early 60's 100% of the 100,000,000 cars on the road had conventional points/condenser ignition and most of them worked just fine. Army vehicles ran on points/cond.

As to the "problem" points and condensers made in China I'd like to see some documentation on that. Over the years I've seen US made condensers defective out of the box, but very very few.

AS many of you have obseved, the epidemic (or Ericidemic)of BTV problems has subsided, most of them being poor workmanship on a rebuild, brake line cut on hte rear axle and other non-BTV causes