Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Dear PackardO:

The line toward the front of the motor is the outfall side.
However, if that filter is full of gas then the problem is in the carburetor and forward. If you have a vacuum leak in the power brake system that will cause starting problems as well, although not as severe as you are having.

If you are concerned about gasoline vapors, just wrap a rag around the line and crank. If the rag becomes soaked then the pump is doing something.

Cranking those motors yields a fuel pulse. The motor has to be running for high flow. Use high quality wrenches and don't overtighten the fittings either because that will damage the parts.

The fuel filter location is wrong because dirt will also knock out the pump. I used to install a paper element inside that fuel bowl and it worked like a charm on problem cars with dirt problems.

It looks like they did something with the pump, but if the car hasn't run since they worked on it maybe they screwed it up. If the gas tank wasn't cleaned then it is probably full of rust.

The carburetor looks like it could use some work as well. Daytona Parts or The Carburetor Doctor are two popular sources for that.

Hope this helps.

I didn't think these cars had power brakes?

Vacuum assisted brakes. There is a vacuum canister aft of the pedal linkage that provides a vacuum boost to the pedal. These are cable brakes, so the 'power' boosting is delivered to the pedal linkage.


Cheers,

Tom

Packard0, most (all?) the senior-series prewar Packards, whether mechanical or hydraulic brakes, had power assisted brakes from 1939 (not sure about 40-42) back to, I believe 1932. In 1934 (and perhaps 1933?) there was also a control on the dash so the owner could adjust the amount of boost to the driving conditions. The booster system for the mechanical brake cars was made by Bragg-Kliesrath which became a division of Bendix about 1933 or 1934. The Twelves also had power-assisted clutch, again a vacuum cylinder system - I think this may have lasted right thru to the end of Twelve production. There also was a power-assisted automatic clutch for 1932, a very early precursor to Electromatic, it wasn't particularly successful.

The B-K power brake system wasn't unique to Packard, most of the true Classics had power brakes in that era, Pierce-Arrow's perhaps the most unique for the years that it was powered by the driveshaft such that the faster you drove, the more the boost.

The first pix below is of the control valve on the mechanical brake cars, the vacuum canister is further to the rear of the car and actuates thru a cable. The Pierce system is kind of obscure and not well-known outside of Pierce circles, I believe Pierce was the only US maker to use it; it found use in many of the top-line European cars and in the US was made by Stewart-Warner. I forget which was the lead European car to use that system, might have ben Hispano.

Attach file:

---

  (159.76 KB)


  (37.72 KB)

We made it back to the 35 Monday morning and the starter wouldn't turn when I tried to start it. I pulled the battery to see how much juice it had and it was about 55% charged. But shouldn't it still turn the starter some? I guess now we should address the starter problems first. At least it looks easy to get to.

Any ideas on where to begin with the starter?

Thanks

I wouldn't expect a battery at 55% to be able to turn the starter and crank the engine worth a spit, that starter draws about 730 amps at lock. If the battery won't accept a full charge, I recommend the largest and highest capacity battery that will fit in your battery box, a NAPA 7212. With proper care you should be able to get 6-8 years of service from it. If you determine that you've cooked the starter motor (and with such a depleted battery I wouldn't assume that), just take it to a starter/alternator repair shop, most average-sized towns have such a facility - simple enough to service it if they don't need any unique parts. Other than the electrical connections just one one bolt to remove to get the starter out of the engine. Otherwise if starter parts are required, consider Jason Smith at AER for an excellent rebuilding service - he signs on here regularly and should see this post but if not:

Advanced Electrical Rebuilders
Grand Ledge, MI
866-228-0218
www.aerrebuild.com
jason@aerrebuild.com

thank you Owen! If this pic works is it the big bolt on top in the silver area? Just remove bolt and pull starter out after removing wires/cable?

Attach file:

---

  (45.44 KB)

Yes, don't just loosen the bolt but remove it completely as it goes thru the aluminum crankcase and then into the starter motor shroud. And remove the electrical cables. Often the starter is difficult to remove because of galvanic corrosion between the aluminum and cast iron so I'd begin soaking with your favorite snake oil and when it comes to trying to remove it, you won't be able to pull it out with rotating it, usually first one direction and then the other. Use of a plumber's strap wrench on the motor body will facilitate this.

It will be good to have the starter looked at but at this point I'm far from convinced it's your immediate problem - a battery at 55% should barely be able to honk the horn with the parking lights on - or less!

Well, surprisingly the starter came out very easy. I found a local shop that does lots of work on 30s, 40s, and 50s specifically starters & generators and alternators on later models. They should call tomorrow and let me know what the damage is--literally.

Sorry for the delay but life has got in the way, we got the starter back and it just needed new insulators and cleaned up real good.

We put it back into the car today and it worked great but we couldn't get the car to start. It's frustrating because the car runs so good when it does start. I did pour small amounts of gas in the carb and it wouldn't start like that either. I took a close up pic of the fuel filter to see if maybe that might be the problem after you guys look at it and see. We still haven't taken anything apart on the fuel system, wanted to make sure the starter worked first. Will post pic soon.