The Most Comprehensive Free Online Reference for Packard Owners
Become a member of Packard Motor Car Information, right now! (it's free)
Login
Username:

Password:

remember me

Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who's Online
49 user(s) are online (39 user(s) are browsing Packard Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 49

more...



« 1 2 (3) 4 »


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Looking at the front of the transmission, the bushing aft of the seal between the splines has holes in it. Are those the oil path for clutch via the annular groove drilled holes in the torque converter shaft and are they indicative of whether or not an appropriate pump is installed for the drilled 40 tooth torque converter shaft or does the bell housing have to be removed?

Posted on: 2019/11/29 12:54
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/3/21 18:20
Posts: 2132
Usually known as the convertor bushing, those four holes supply fluid to fill and pressurize the convertor but are not for the direct clutch.

Suggest you take an airline and blow it into the direct drive test port whilst you have the convertor off and see if you get a good gust out through the center of the front pump.

Posted on: 2019/11/29 18:39
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Good suggestion. With a rubber tipped air nozzle on the test port, air flows freely. There's no pressurization. It feels like there's air coming out the front of the transmission but it's slight.

So the current situation is no direct drive clutch actuation in normal operation, the 40 tooth setup has the drilled holes. The clutch itself appears fine. Hydraulics on the test port indicate normal pressure at the right time when going down the road. Now there appears to be a clear path to the converter. What else could be causing the problem?

If I slipped the torque converter onto the transmission and put air at the test port, should I be able to feel the clutch actuate, perhaps in how the converter spins? I imagine the air pressure would want to push the converter off the transmission.

Posted on: 11/30 15:39:18
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Here's a thought.

The guy I bought this car from conveyed his belief that the reason for the lack of lockup was that he used the original friction plate due to it's lack of wear, and so had purchased a new one but hadn't got around to installing it.

I assume the new rebuild clutch packs installed in the transmission used friction material that differed from original, to be compatible with more modern low friction hydraulic fluid. Could it simply be that the original direct drive clutch friction plate with modern fluid would slip so badly that the driver would not feel any engagement whatsoever? I've been assuming all along that one would feel something, but maybe not. Thoughts?

Posted on: 11/30 20:50:16
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15440
In a correctly working DD there is a small jolt when the clutch engages - to me more of a bump than a shift feel. Packard went to a great deal of effort to make the engagement smooth and there are many service articles explaining some of the things done or things learned and suggested to be done in the field to improve engagement characteristics. One would assume that unless the old cork friction material has become worn thin or very hard and glazed it would still exhibit some of those characteristics.

Even in cases where the friction material is not optimum there is sometimes more of a groaning noise as the clutch slips as it tries to engage rather than something you can distinctly feel. Many describe the DD coming in as more of a lessening of noise as the engine RPMs drop because of the hard coupling and no longer having any loss in the converter. If the trans was still in the car you could get a good idea if it is coming in by hooking up a tach and seeing if the RPMs drop.

Posted on: 11/30 21:14:49
_________________
Howard
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/3/21 18:20
Posts: 2132
No, you will definitely feel something even on the best of them. Because these are relatively high stall convertors there is a goodly difference in speed that is taken up when the direct clutch engages. Think of the feel of a torqueflight shifting into third. And usually even on very worn and weak Ultras you will feel the shift when the unit is cold.

Different fluids make only trivial differences.

I have never in dozens of units seen a direct disc worn out but I have surely seen them hard as glass with a coefficient of friction that is probably more like teflon than a clutch material. You must be able to indent the surface with your fingernail.

Yours is a '55? Look down into the reactor shaft with a flashlight. There is a bronze bushing near the bottom; it must not have grooves in it--that is 56 only. Also check the fit of the reactor shaft in the bushing at the end of the convertor stub shaft. Factory clearance is .003" but if your car has had alignment issues I have seen them with .030" clearance and there is no chance of your direct fluid making its way to the clutch.

Posted on: 12/1 4:53:42
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/3/21 18:20
Posts: 2132
A buddy of mine is starting to put together some videos for me. Here is one on a 56 convertor you might find helpful.

https://youtu.be/-MMpGPeswaI

Posted on: 12/1 5:06:04
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Nice video. Need more of those.

Looking down the inside of the reactor shaft aside from the splines for the center shaft all other surfaces appear smooth, including the bronze colored one.
There is no sideways play on the reactor shaft at all.

The old friction plate surface is hard. My fingernail doesn't dent it. As mentioned previously there's a new plate in there now but I'm not at all confident that will resolve the issue. As an aside, the case halves have a pliable O-ring seal, which is still round. The converter hasn't leaked.

The one way clutch can be felt.

Posted on: 12/1 13:02:29
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Am still left with a mystery as to why the direct drive doesn't work when everything so far seems to check out. I wish there were an Ultramatic expert in my locale.

Posted on: 12/2 20:41:02
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Torque Converter Removal
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
The service bulletin illustrates the original '55 front pump assembly with the clutch port on the face, and the revised '56 pump assembly with the clutch port internal to the pump into the shaft area. What isn't shown is the intermediate service replacement pump that required the holes be drilled into the converter shaft. It has a different part number per the bulletin but no description or picture. How is that pump different from the original '55 part? (The rotors are separate.)

Posted on: 12/10 18:43:11
_________________
1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 2 (3) 4 »




[Advanced Search]


Search
Recent Photos
Random Photo
1944 Packard Brown Bomber, front view
Helping Out
PackardInfo is supported and funded by user donations. If you would to help out by either donating content, or funds to help with the upkeep and hosting of this site please EMAIL ME or click on the donate button.