I'm not sure how familiar you are with these cars, so let me ramble on a bit and hope it's useful to you. The number on the frame is just that, a frame #, ditto for the steering gear, Packard continued doing this for about another 10 years and all those numbers should be within the same range as the engine #s for that year and series, and the engine# should be the same as the VN number. As they are within the range for a 2nd Series (1925-26) Eight, I'd view that as pretty conclusive. The fact that your car is near the end of the number range strongly suggests that it was built and sold in 1926, though as I've said Packard didn't adhere to calendar year introduction until some years later so I suppose one could call it either a 1925 or a 1926, but the definitive identification is 2nd Series Eight. It also wasn't until a few years later that the VN also was encoded to give year/chassis/body type. Your engine # may be on the driver side, on the aluminum lower crankcase, in the vicinity of the oil filler tube and near the junction of the upper (cast iron) cylinder bores and it should be the same as the VN. Please also measure the wheelbase, should be 143 inches. The only other wheelbase available in the 2nd Series Eight was 136 inches, and there were no 7-passenger body styles available on that chassis. FYI there were 5680 2nd Series Eight produced. If we're correct about the Series and the wheelbase is 143 inches, the proper description of your car would be a Packard Model 2-43 with body style 254 (sedan for 7 pass, no divider window) or 256 (limousine for 7 pass).

Bore and stroke are 3-3/8 x 5, 84 brake horsepower. The 2nd Series started with a multiple disc clutch which was discontinued part-way thru the series, in April 1926. Likewise the later cars had only 30 chassis points lubricated by the Bijur system, as compared to 45 at introduction. These were changes made during the series production. Rear axle ratio 4.66.

I have a friend, a professional restorer who has done numerous Pebble Beach cars, who has 2 Second Series Eights, a Merrimac coupe and a Murphy disappearing top convertible. Both are quite original and the Merrimac was driven last year from Seattle to Pebble Beach, probably over 1000 miles, w/o incident. Send me a PM if you want his contact information. And best of luck with the car, it's quite a wonderful piece of history.

EDIT- I should have pointed out that there were 8 body styles on 2-36 chassis and 4 on the 2-43 chassis, and of course naked chassis sold to coachbuilders as well.

I am enclosing a picture of the data plate located on the firewall under the steering wheel. I also took a picture of a number on the left side on the chasis (#211062), so not sure if that is the engine number or what. There was also a number on the steering column (#217645).

Any further help with this will be much appreciated. Thanks!

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Those 'bolt and sleeve' after market links are pretty common. I got a pair from NAPA that were for a '59 Impala... saved the neoprene? grommets and threw the rest in my spare bolt bucket. The whole NAPA kit cost way less than buying the individual grommets from specialized suppliers and they fit my '50 Packard very nicely.

In that era Packard didn't build and market by calendar year but by series, some longer and some shorter than a year. I'm guessing that it's a 2nd series (Feb 1925 to Aug 1926) Eight, body style #256. If so, the engine# should be between 209,000 and 219,999. This would be the first series with the Bijur chassis oiler and Bendix 3-shoe internal expanding brakes. It also would then have the early-style crankshaft which gave rise to the odd firing order (cast into the right rear of the crankcase), the firing order was revised to the almost universal 1-6-2-5-8-3-7-4 beginning with the next series.

Owen: The 1933 Pierce-Arrow's had a new front and rear design. They went to what I call a skirted fron fender design.


John, that pale green 1933 Pierce Arrow V12 convertible sedan you show with blackwall tires under the RM Logo is actually a LeBaron, one of allegedly only 3 on the shorter (model 1242) wheelbase, and has an ostrich skin interior. It was owned for a time by Mr. George Couri of Tenafly New Jersey and did the Concours circuit a few years back. It has been suggested that it was originally owned by Carole Lombard though as far as I've heard there was no substantiation of that.

The P-A 1242 and 1247 were 3-1/2 x 4 bore and stroke for 462 cubic inches. The model 1236 was 3-3/8 x 4 for 429 cubic inches

Can you post a picture of the data plate? It will be on the firewall.

Tom

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Gerd,

And the winner of this beauty pagent is "Miss-Represented"! I can't believe she's that old!

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John - I cant remember the tech. details about Pierces - been probably fifty years since I worked on one.

But that is the essential differences between us. I think you are a great guy for having enough interest in old cars to devote as much effort (and probably money) to getting a bunch of books about them.

That illustrates the difference between us - I am old enough to have owned, driven, & worked on big luxury cars from the 1930's when many of them were still in service as used cars, and you havn't had that opportunity.

That dosnt make me any smarter than you. I just happened to have been born into a time when I got a chance to get hands on experience, that you dont have.

In other web-sites you have suggested I did not have a sixteen cyl. Cadillac, or a Rolls Phantom. Not clear why you get hostile. This is supposed to be for fun and education. It is a free country. We all benefit from your contributions from your apparently vast store of book-learning.

The problem is, as time evolves, and more and more young smart alecs decide to write books, well-meaning guys like you can read something that you couldnt possibly know is just plain nuts, and then go off on tangents that are inaccurate.

Fact is ALL Pierce V-12 versions were good engines in great cars. Fact is, Pierce was NEVER able to generate the kind of consumer loyalty that Packard did.

Of COURSE Packards in ANY price class werent all THAT much superior to any other car in a relevant price class, but they were GOOD. DAMN good buys for the money. No question SOME features, as I pointed out, such as the over-drive, made Pierce, in some respects, "better" than a Packard. But you really ought to drive some of these cars you like to talk about, to get a more accurate perspective.

Again, please accept my SINCERE thanks for your many contributions from your book-learning. I have learned things from you and your sources I would never have learned on my own.

BUT DONT TRY AND TELL ME A PIERCE V-12 WAS BETTER THAN A PACKARD V-12 !

Slow cranking with a 6 volt system ? Baloney. Be ASSURED a properly maintained 6 volt Packard did NOT crank slow. You have to really work at it to maintain a Packard 6 volt to the point it will crank slow. I suggest 1) wrong - too small battery cables 2) crummy battery 3) lots of un-maintained cables and grounds.

Some years ago, at a car show, someone saw me starting up my Packard V-12 (bone stock except for its high speed rear axle ratio) and was puzzled that it started so fast, even tho it was a hot day, and I had come off a fast freeway drive.

I SHOULD have told him that is the way Packards were SUPPOSED to crank over, but instead,I decided to have a bit of fun. I explained that modern 6 volts is too fast for the old 6 volt system - the "juice" just goes thru the wires too fast. So you need to get a 4 volt battery to get the old style slow electricity.....

Yup..you guessed it...a couple of years later...the "gossip mill" amongst these damn fool self-styled experts worked....overheard a couple of these clowns marveling at how fast my bone stock V-12 fires up....and they knowingly explained to each other about that "four volt battery" I must have had in there........

TO THE FELLOW WHO IS GETTING LESS THAN 6 MPG ON A PACKARDV-12

Strongly recommend you do NOT drive it - dont even try and START it, till you get competent technical help from someone familiar with Packard V-12's.

There is something VERY wrong with your car. Obviously, I cant diagonois it from a computer screen's posts.

In the late 1930's, at a General Motors test track (all the mfgs. would buy other make cars just to test them out, so as to keep an eye out on the competition) they were able to gat a Packard Twelve in decent shape down to around 7.5 mpg, but only by selecting one with the optional 4.69 rear axle ratio, AND by driving it at over 80 mpg.

In normal city-suburban driving at under 60 mpg, you should see around 10 mpg. Anything signficantly less, FIX IT. Driving ANY car that consumes way more fuel than it is supposed to, will RUIN it in short order.