If the backend hasn't been as messed up as the front and cab it looks like it may have been a flower car before it became a locomotive.

West - thanks for the very revealing photo. I was having a hard time trying to figure it out too but I couldn't remember what the inner trim ring actually looked like.

I sent a note to Glenn and Mike along with your photo and asked them to send a photo back showing what the problem is. They just finished another '41 180 a few months ago and had no problem fitting all the wheel trim on that car.

Also, thank you JD & Flackmaster for the photos and info. As Alice said, "It gets curiouser and curiouser!"

This just in...the shop sent photos of the "LeBaron" rims vs. the original 180 spare rim.

IMG-6325 shows the "LeBaron" rim.
IMG-6326 shows the raised piece behind each wheel bolt hole that is causing the problem of attaching the inner trim ring.

IMG-6328 is my original spare.
IMG-6329 shows that there isn't a raised piece around the wheel nut.

So...based on that raised bit of metal by each bolt hole, any idea what Packard that "LeBaron" rim actually goes to?

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My '41 limo was changed to 15" rims early in the 50's and I decided to convert it back to the original rims. Ten years ago I bought some 16" rims from a reputable Packard parts dealer. They were marked "41 LeBaron". I also bought some inner trim rings, outer trim rings and the 180 hubcaps from another reputable Packard parts dealer.

The inner trim rings - though guaranteed to be 1941 Packard - did not fit! We tried them out on the two original spares that came with the car and they did not fit those either. But the outer trim rings and the hubcaps fit the "LeBaron" rims fine. I found another set of inner trim rings and just found out they don't fit! The problem this time is the "LeBaron" rims! They were very closely checked out and it turns out there is a slight difference between these rims and another Packard rim where the trim rings and hubcap fit.

So now I have to search for four more rims and what the heck am I searching for? How can I possibly know what is correct or not? Meanwhile, I have two '41 Henneys which have a total of 8 16" rims. The Henney's were basically 120s with a few 180 parts tossed in.

Big question...is there a difference in wheels between Packard models or should the 180 inner and outer trim rings and the hubcaps fit on the Packard-Henney rims? The limo is in Idaho and the Henneys are in California so I can't pull the hubcaps and trim rings and try them out.

It's been over ten years since I bought the rims and the first set of inner trim rings and no one is taking them back. So I now have $1,000 invested in worthless rims and inner trim rings. Grrr...!!!

Stunning. Hard to believe that is the same car in the woods. Congratulations!!!

JD - Here's the notes from my car in the search for the divider window mechanism.

"Pulled both right and left jump seat well access panels to try to find hydraulic lines or rams for divider windows (no luck) pulled divider window bezel to try to see window mechanism (no luck) checked under car for hydraulic line (no luck). Finally found solenoid for ram in right side jump seat well area. Line goes up into under divider area - looks like front seat and front seat back will have to be removed."

JD - My '41 180 limo had sat in storage for close to 40 years and all the window mechanisms were frozen solid. As I wanted to keep the car as original as possible I decided to keep the hydraulic windows.

So here's how it's totaled up so far: New (or rebuilt) from Hydro-Electric: service window cylinders (4 @ $155.25 each), service solenoids (4 @ $149.50) plus 4 new hoses at $28.75 each and a window cylinder for the divider window at $189.

Upon receipt of all the above, adjustments had to be made. The ram shafts had to be cut to the correct length - about 2 ?" was removed from each ram shaft, also had to change wire ends on the solenoids. Another small problem was the window cylinders. The old cylinders had ball joints on push rods, the new ones are ridged rods. Spacers had to be made to get the alignment correct.

Meanwhile, Hydro-Electric tested the pump and found it had very low pressure and they proclaimed it "irrepairable." So I had to find another pump.

Six months passed and I had not found a pump. Then I called John Ulrich to see if perhaps he'd found anything since I'd last checked in with him and though he didn't, he did have the name of a '41 180 owner in Washington who had converted his car to roll-up windows. I called him and he kindly agreed to sell me his pump for $125. Upon receiving it Hydro-Electric said his pump had decent pressure but it leaked and they couldn't fix it. I asked them well since mine didn't leak could they put the two of them together and make one good pump. Nope, they couldn't because the two pumps were slightly different. Did they have any suggestions as now I had well over $2,000 invested in parts, rebuilding and labor. "Sure" they said, "You could have new parts machined for your pump." Argghh! Why didn't they tell me that back in the beginning!!! There is something odd in the way folks do business these days, they don't offer options for a problem unless you press them for alternatives. So $550 later I had a perfect pump.

But it still isn't working quite right yet. The pressure is factory perfect, there are no leaks, but some of the windows raise up very slow. It could be the return springs are too stiff or something else - new window channels to tight? Hmmm...we'll see.

So, after all of that I'm still glad I've kept the hydraulic windows. My car isn't concours, I won't be winning any shows but it's part of the car's history, it's a part of automotive history and a delightful example of an innovative process to bring about the luxury of automatic windows.

Good luck!

Neal

Henney seemed to favor the "script" style hubcap for their hearses. The cars shown in their catalogs for 1940, 1941 and 1942 all have the script hubcaps.

Perhaps they preferred the non-model designating styling of the script hubcaps. The Henneys were an interesting mix of 120 and 160/180 bits and pieces.

Tom - I got the escutcheons for my 41 from "Yesterday's Radio" (http://www.yesterdaysradio.com/). They have them for 40s too.

Only problem I had with them was I could never get the damn things on. No matter how hard I pressed and swore, there wasn't enough space to get the pin back into the handles.

It is rumoured that the highly secretive Packard Escuthcheon Club knows how to do it, but they won't tell anyone as the only way to get into the club is to get them on yourself. Glenn Vaughn's crew got mine on, but they're not talking as they are obviously members of the PEC.

Good to know the correct inner trim rings for Packards are now available.

I sent Bill Hirsch an eMail after hearing from West about the trim rings that Bill had at Hershey. Bill replied "I had 6 of them at Hershey and I think I sold 3 of them and still have 3. They are brand new but they were from the first batch made and some of them need a bit of trimming at the bottom. They sell for $ 70.00 each but these are $20.00 each. If you don't trim off about 1/8" off the bottom they will not seat far enough into the wheel which could cause a hubcap to pop off."

So there are 3 "fixer-uppers" at $20 each or the new-improved ones at $70. I'm still going to search for the used ones so they'll match the car. So RogerDetroit I'll be in touch.

Kinda backwards eh? I'd rather have old and worn rather than new and shiny.