Not only could someone with an eighth grade education eventually buy two Packards, they could sometimes do quite well without ever formally attending college.

Jesse Vincent, Packard's Engineering Vice President during WWII, who'd designed Packard's twin-six and Liberty engines, and later the twelve cylinder engine that powered PT boats, and who'd won a gold cup in marine racing in a boat powered by one of his designs, dropped out of school at the 8th grade.

According to The Packard Story by Turnquist, Vincent got his engineering education working in machine shops and through correspondence courses. He joined Packard in 1912 and by the 1920's was chief engineer. Vincent and his staff developed sixes, straight eights, V-eights, V-twelves, horizontal twelves and twenty-four cylinder W engines.

With the way companies rely on diplomas today, if he were a kid today and dropped out of the 8th grade to work in a machine shop and take correspondence courses, he'd probably be sweeping floors in the machine shop and working at Mickey D's part time to make ends meet.

To tell the truth, I was more fascinated with the little 2-car hauler.

I did a search on the net for car carriers of the 1930s and found a lot of old photos but not one of that truck. I did find a couple pictures of a toy truck that I think is based on that design.

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Bitchin!

Hi,

Do any members know this guy - this car? I asked him how he was progressing over a year ago but he hasn't responded. I'm guessing he came on, made some initial posts about the car and hasn't returned since.

As a P.H. owner, I'm just wondering what kind of progress he's making.

Hee, hee,

Shows you what I know about pre-war Packard models. Looks like I'd better go directly to the forums instead of using that new posts button and then responding there. If I had, I would have realized that I was thinking about the right thread and would have asked about the 1903?

Packards are like a different language. Juniors, Seniors model numbers, series numbers. Whew!

Sorry,

Guess I got you mixed up with someone else's post about a 1941 Model 160.

I'm not familiar with Packard Engines that old. Is that one of those engines with the cylinders and heads cast as a single unit and the rings and pistons are installed from the bottom vs. the top?

Casey Jay,

I made my living as a mechanic nearly four decades ago. Back then, if we had an engine seized up we'd drain the sump and leave the plug out and then pour as much Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder as the cylinders would hold, put a pan under the sump to catch the oil and then wait. And wait. And wait.

Every morning we'd put a wrench on the front pully nut and give a gentle pull to see if things had freed up, if they hadn't, check to see how much MMO had made it to the sump and into our pan and then we'd top up each cyclinder and continue to wait. And wait, And wait..... Waiting was a pain but it cost an owner less than tearing into the motor.

The MMO would usually do the trick and by and by free things up. If, after the engine began turning over, we could spin it with the starter with plugs out and coil wire grounded and it felt/sounded like things were moving freely, and we were getting proper compression on every cylinder, we'd top it up with some oil, put in the plugs, plug in the coil, cross our fingers and see if it would start.

If it started, we'd have to wait about ten minutes for the white smoke to dissipate and the engine to get warmed up and then start listening for piston slap. Slap meant that the rings were seized to the pistons, in which case we knew we were going to have to tear it down.

Sometimes the smoke didn't dissipate because anti-freeze was leaking into the cylinders and we'd find that we were dealing with a cracked block or a blown head gasket which also meant a tear down.

You said in that other thread that you'd removed the engine and transmission and stored them separately from the vehicle for a number of years. Are you absolutely certain that all water was drained out the block when you put it in storage? It's one thing to have some rings seize to the cylinder walls because the cylinders are dry; it's quite another to have them seize because water left in the water jacket froze, expanded, cracked the block and got into the cylinders. Here's a tip - the next time you store a motor, use compressed air to blow out the cooling jacket, fill those cylinders with MMO and put some rubber plugs into the spark plug holes so you can occasionally replenish the MMO.

Even if you are able to free the rings from the cylinder walls, there is about a 3-1 likelihood that the rings are not likely to have been freed up from the pistons. The cylinder walls are not the exact same diameter from top to bottom. As the piston moves downward the bottom ring expands and scrapes the cylinder wall free of most oil. As the piston travels upward again that ring and the others compress as the cylinder narrows near the top. That's why you'll need to check the compression on every cylinder before you try to crank it. If you have a cylinder with extremely low/no compression, don't even bother trying to run it our you'll screw it up.


Even if you can turn it over, starting it could damage the motor if the rings have seized to those pistons. With the rings seized to the pistons where they've been compressed, those pistons will start to slap around in those cylinders as they come up because the rings can't expand and keep them centered. Rings that seize to the pistons in the expanded position can gouge their cylinder walls or break piston lands as the pistons move downward in the cylinders.

Another thing you have to worry about is spalled cylinder walls. Sometimes when pistons seize to cylinder walls and are freed up the corrosion leaves microscopic spalling in the cylinder wall. If you break a motor down and the spalling isn't too bad, you can often use a hone to remove the spalling, throw in a new set of rings and put things backtgether and expect a decent result. If the cylinder walls have spalled and you don't clean them up, that rough spalled area may not scrape very clean and you'll end up with an engine that doesn't use a lot of oil but smokes a lot because of the trace oil left in the spalling.

I just remembered. If you've got a hankering for a new toy for your mailbox, you might have another way to check things out. Harbor Freight sells a relatively inexpensive fiber-optic bore inspection camera. Quality-wise it's nowhere near the quality of the See Snake and other devices made by other tool makers that produce the same device for significantly more but it might be worth the investment.

I know it's a pain in the keester, but if I were you I'd at least pull the head and see what I'm dealing with before I tried to start that engine after it has been seized so long. '41 Packard engine blocks don't grow on trees. I'd rather have to spend a few more hours getting dirty and sweaty than to stay cleaner and discover later that I'd damaged my engine beyond repair.

Hi,

I hadn't heard that. I don't think I've ever heard it mentioned in any of the threads I've read about chassis over on the Studebaker Driver's Club forum. Could be true though, I've only been back to the automotive world for the past couple of years after a 38 year hiatus.

My P.H. was literally used as a pickup truck by the original owner for more than 50 years. The guy had a tractor repair shop. When I bought it, the interior and exterior of the car looked like the outside and interior of most pickup trucks looked. There were actually dried out dead pigeons under the front seat! Inner control arm bushings had worn out ions ago and the holes those were turned into were egg shaped from decades of driving around without any grease. I expected to find the frame all tweaked and cracked. When I got the body off, got the frame home and tore it all the way down I found no cracks and, according to my lazer level, it's straight as an arrow despite all that abuse.

Maybe mine is the exception to the rule.

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Not entirely true. No production convertibles but there was one made in 1958 - ostensibly for a senior engineer at S-P. It's in the museum in Dayton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1958_Packard_Hawk_Convertible.jpg

I used a propane torch and just put enough on it to make it soft but not to burn. The heat de-crystalized it and then it peeled right off with a putty knife.