Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Next on the list toward perfection....

When ultramatic shifts from 1st to 2nd, I will often hear an engine rattle. Here's my best impression....

Say, "Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug" real fast. Now, add a twinge of "metally" sound to it.

It sounds kind of like what I have heard referenced as "ping" but doesn't really "ping" to my ears. There is no high pitch. It's more of a rattle.

Mechanic says probably because lead is missing in gas these days and lead used to serve as a lubricant.

I read earlier on this forum about possibe, toxic additives. Frankly, if that's all there is to it, I'll pass on the additives. As much as I drive, that would sure up the cost big-time.

Am I on track here?

Sounds like preignition to me. Check your ignition timing first, if it's OK, just use a higher octane gasoline, for example move from regular to mid-range. Some V8 Packards are more demanding on octane than others, my 56 Caribbean wants premium grade but most I've driven don't require it.

Sounds like your using your Twin Ultramatic in the higher performance mode; I'd suggest for longer trouble-free transmission life you not do that and use it in conventional mode of start on torque converter and a single shift into direct drive.

It does kinda sound like low octane knock which would be the case as you suddenly increase the load on engine with a shift. Am sure some of the engine experts will have a better idea.

As long as the engine does not have an increase in speed when shifting and then back down which is called "flare" in Packard lingo an additive might help.

There can also be a rattle at times in the shift to direct drive or what some would consider the "3rd shift" caused by the direct drive clutch facings not grabbing quickly. The flare needs to be corrected-usually by a throttle linkage adj. The direct drive can be alleviated by just letting up on gas when the shift happens so it is not under load at the instant.

Yep, HH, I noticed that, too. If I let off the gas, I eliminate the noise. Are you saying an adjustment can be made to remedy that?

I think the noise you hear is the low octane or pre ignition and letting off the gas would lessen the load thus lessen the knock.

The linkage adjustment is only for engine flare or run away during a shift. If yours isn't doing that then no need. The direct drive thing is a major repair involving replacing the old hard DD clutch. Unless the clutch fails totally and has to be worked on, the best solution and good practice anyway for other reasons is just to let off gas at that particular time.

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If that's what's happening, then it sounds like you have the same problem I had on my '56 Patrician, the clutch disc in the converter dried out. The best thing to do it, drain the fluid, fill it back up with Type F, drive it normally for around 500 miles, drain, repeat. Then, on the second administration of the Type F, when it makes the noise, push on the gas harder for a little bit, like 30 seconds or so at a time, then let off. Do this for the next 500 miles to get the glaze off the disc. The thing that I really think helped me was the additive that Ford used when the first started using Mercon V, which may or may not still be available. There was a few additives missing from the batch of the fluid, in new cars, and they had a little bottle of friction modifier to add to the trans. Since I worked at the Ford dealership, and it was only about $5 my cost, I thought "what the hell" and tried it. It GREATLY reduced the incidents of clutch grinding, but I don't know if it's still available anymore. Then, after the 500 miles, on the THIRD drain, refill it with B&M TrickShift, and the noise and vibration is gone for good. I did this with my Pat, after it sat in a pasture for 40 years, and it fixed it. You WILL have a vibration if it's the clutch disc, and it WILL be noticeable, like the car's about to fall apart!

Hi There,
Don't know if you have a v-8 or a flathead. Don't think it makes much difference. I agree with the first suggestion to verify the timing. Timing that is too advanced will cause any engine to ping. Even with the timing set to the book spects the unleaded gas can cause pinging. Not to worry. Just retard the timing a degree or two and try it again. A good way to test for preignition is to find a hill to climb. This will require more throttle and cause more pinging. By retarding the timing a little at a time you should be able to eliminate the noise. You do sacrifice some horsepower but it is much easier on the engine. Pinging is not at all good for an engine. You could crack pistons or mess up the cylinder bore.

What is this "higher performance mode" Owen refers to in the first reply? All I do is move the transmission arm to D and go.

As to timing, guys, please bear with me here, but are we talking distributor adjustment?

There is no engine "runaway" or revving between gears.

When the original Ultra was developed, it started in high and made the transition to direct drive only. Low was available but almost not used for anything but hills or stump pulling. While it was a very smooth takeoff, you could almost walk as fast as the car accelerated. People wanted faster acceleration so would start in low and manually shift to high without letting off the gas which usually caused major damage to trans in short order. Late 54, the twin ultra was designed to do the shift automatically 1-2 2-direct drive like a convention 3 spd (D button or position). The original high to direct only was left in (H position or button) for those that still wanted the smooth shift. D is the performance mode, H is the conventional.

Timing is distributor adj.

Good that there is no runaway as that was one of the major issues when shifting manually as the high range clutch plates burned..

Yes, so if I understand correctly, I should not operate in D, but instead H?

As to timing the distributor, this goes back many, many years for me, but as I recall, it was just the piece right in the middle that fed all the points. You just pull it off and push it on, right?

Assuming so, to turn it back a degree, does that literally mean just pull it off and put it back on rotated slightly counter-clockwise from where it was before?

Assuming so, can this be done by "eye," or do you need some tool to measure properly.

Incidentally, I think my gas mileage sucks. I also think it idles a bit high when in Park. That may be unrelated and if so, let's address the timing first and get back to the idle.

Thanks, so much. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. I really enjoy learning this stuff. See, I have a 60 Bel-air to restore down the road, and everything I learn here, I will use on my next project.

EDIT: To Bob... I let you know when I find a hill in Houston. Then, you can come down, and we'll marvel at it together. Just kidding. Seriously, thanks for your advice, too.