Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Twitch, My Packard is stored from November to May but I mostly use 5W30 synthetic in the winter in my daily drivers. They do sell a 0W30 synthetic as well however. temperatures last week went to -45F with windchill at -55F to give you an idea of why.

Oh Boy! The Packard Manual specifically recommends against detergent motor oil use prior to 1955. Valvoline non-detergent 30W is a good choice as is Kendall ND 30W. You want oils rated SB. Pitt-Penn makes a 10w-30 non-detergent oil which is better than straight 30w.

I have contacted oil companies about this oil issue and they don't recommend diesel oils and 20w-50 is not an authorized grade. They recommend you follow the owner's manual service intervals and guidelines.

However, If you want to use detergent oil petroleum engineers recommend the oil change interval be reduced by half. For Packard that is a 1000 mile interval for detergent oil changes.

The rule of thumb is that if your engine does not have a full flow filter then use non-detergent SB rated oil formulated for automobile engines.

I have been seeing a lot of premature engine wear from extended oil change intervals in old cars. For Packard that is a very expensive proposition.

If you are driving your car at sustained highway speeds then perhaps heavier grades may help, but if you are driving at low speeds heavy oils are detrimental.

I wouldn't cruise any pre-1955 Packard over 55 and prefer 45-50. Especially after having seen what happens in a high speed collision.

In the old days the 55 mph speed limit helped, but modern cars are just too fast and I would stick to the secondary roads that the cars were built for.

HAPPY MOTORING!

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You're kidding, right? I plan on using Mobil 1 Synthetic 10W30 in my '52 when I get it, and driving the piss out of it at speeds over 100 miles an hour on several occasions. All this with a slightly modified straight eight. And in the "old days", there were no speed limits. I suggest you ask Paul Cornwell about sustained high speed driving in his Packard V8 back in the day. There's several of us on here who have Packards that drive them on the interstate at speeds over 55, and usually more like in the 70-80 mph range. Now, if you happen to have a '30s V12 with the stock gear, I wouldn't drive it very fast until I at least dropped an Oldsmobile rear end in it.

I have been using 15W50 Mobil 1 for several years and maybe 75,000 miles total in the 352s. Also use it in the Harley. Starts good here in the mild, Kentucky winters and also does well in the summer. I also used it in the 352s when living in the California desert, 1997 thru 2000.

I am thinking it may be overkill as far as thickness, but so far it has not hurt anything, and I change oil & filter every 10,000 miles religiously. The first 5,000 the oil still if fairly clean on the dipstick, and at 10,000 it looks about like dyno oil at 5,000. Since I hate to change oil, this is an added bonus with synthetic.

Joe H

Tim, how old are you and what Packard owners manual are you reading? When the Pa turnpike first opened in the late 30's Packards were running 75-85 miles an hour from Irwin to Carlisle, the length of the turnpike at that time. There was no speed limit.
In the old days the 55 mph speed limit helped, but modern cars are just too fast and I would stick to the secondary roads that the cars were built for.
55 mph in the OLD? days?? We drove from Pa to Calif in 1953 in a one year old 1952 Mayfair. Down thru the Texas panhandle and straight thru New Mexico and Arizona we ran along at 65-70 mph and frequently were passed by trucks and Greyhounds. The Packard straight-8 would sustain 75 mph easily for long distances.
How do you expect the oil companies to respond when confronted by a question like "What oils do you recommend". Their stock answer would be to follow the owners manual. They don't even have to give your question any serious thought.
May I respectfully suggest that you read more practical responses to the questions raised on this and other auto forums by people who have actually used the products, materials and solutions that are discussed.

Tim -

Welcome to the forum, but beware of canned answers that come by way of the legal department of Amerikan Korporations.

While PMCC wrote some of the best service manuals for the day and recommended the best available maintenance products available at the time, technology keeps changing and many of those products are NLA.

So, we have to look for a happy medium from honest suppliers who have a genuine interest in keeping the old cars on the road - not just making a fastbuck, whilst covering their backsides.

Yet, let me digress a little. My father, a life-long mechanic, purchased an Exec hardtop, brand-new back in 1956 and put nearly 75K on the clock before he parted with the car. He put the car to the test early on in its life, when he was running up US19 (a two-line highway) one night; the clock was closing in on 120MPH, but he never knew the top speed as he was afraid to take his eyes of the road by that point. Though many have experienced oiling issues with the Packard V8, my dad never had the engine apart in that car and never heard one bit of lifter noise, either.

Meanwhile, I look forward to hearing more actual experiences from all Packard owner on their choice of motor oils these days and will report back on any news I hear in the automotive marketplace.

Wow!

Tim Cole (that's me) has really made a lot of friends here at the Packard Forum.

I guess I won't give out my phone number.

I had a Packard come in with a stuck choke and after a few adjustments added 60 more horsepower. The owner took it out on the highway and promptly blew it up.

The reason I contacted oil companies was because I have to advise customers how to interpret what is stated in the official Packard Lubrication Guidelines available on this website.

When I take a 5000 mile old engine apart and find the pistons falling out of it I want to know why.

When I compare original Packard engine parts to aftermarket replacements I can see there is no comparison. So I won't argue that 50 years ago you could get a lot more out of a Packard then today.

I knew a guy years ago who had a Packard Speedster and drove it at high speeds up to 90 mph. It held up fine. But he owned a gas station and did a full lubrication service before each extended trip. He had the car for 40 years and drove it about 1500 to 2000 miles per year. As the years went by he didn't drive it as fast because the traffic was getting pretty heavy.

My other source of information besides oil companies are handbooks on petroleum engineering.

Over the years I have seen a number of low mileage Packards taken out by new owners, driven like crazy, and then blow up.

Do what you want, but I am not going to take a nice 1930 Packard out on the road, open the throttle and see how much I can get away with.

Nor am I going to dismiss the Packard Service Manual as just so much nerdy non-sense.

If I want that kind of advice I will take my car to grease monkey.

Tim, Welcome to the forum and thanks for your input. I am interested in what you have to contribute since you do seem to have some experience with Packards.
The owners manual for my 47 Super Clipper with the 356 CID engine states that oil should be changed at 1000 mile intervals. Are you suggesting that if I use detergent oil I should change the oil at 500mile intervals? My knowledge of oil is very limited as I am not a chemical engineer but I have been of the opinion that the word "detergent" in reference to engine oil, is a misnomer since it doesn't mean it cleans the engine but rather it has additives which trap contaminants and keep them from harming the engine and also controls the development of sludge. How can this be harmful when compared to non-detergent oil if oil is changed at the specified 1000 mile interval? I also realize that the bypass oil filter system are not as efficient as the modern flow through types.
One of the first things I did when I bought my Packard was to remove the oil pan and clean out a thick layer of sludge. After 4 years of summer season driving I removed the pan again and found only a thin layer of sludge which I suspect was just material that had been lurking in the passage ways and lifter gallery since the first cleaning of the pan. Obviously to me the modern 15W40 Diesel oil that I have been using has helped control sludge build up and is superior than the sludge forming original oils used in the car for it's first 50 years of life. I use the diesel oil because the 356 engine is a dirty engine by modern standards and more particulate matter is deposited into the oil. My understanding as a layman is that diesel grade oil has more additives to trap particulate material than do gasoline engine oils. Help me if I am making a wrong assumption but please also justify your argument with facts or at least personal anecdotal experience.
As to driving flat out I am in agreement that these old cars with their long strokes and heavy pistons are suseptible to engine failure if pushed beyond designed rpm limits; so is any engine for that matter.
I must admit that I drive my Packard sedately to conserve gas and the 60 year old engine but once on the highway and with overdrive engaged it seems to cruise comfortable at speeds of 60-65mph. Thanks for listening!
BTW do you own a Packard?

Tim, it isn't that you haven't made any friends here, but your initial statement said pre-1955 and it has now evolved to a 1930 Packard. That's a difference of 24 years and a load of technology. No one is going to attempt to drive a 1930 Packard 90 mph but that isn't what you initially stated. The Packard 356 9 main bearing engine would sustain high speed driving and did so regularly, but it wasn't geared like a 1930 Packard. And to not take advantage of modern lubricants because a 1930 or 1947 owners manual doesn't recommend it is a little foolish. I only change my oil once a year, but i do it at the end of the driving season after driving less than 3,000 miles and my car sits all winter long with the bearings bathed in fresh oil. The many Packard owners who contribute to this and other old car forums share a wealth of knowledge and experience that only comes with time. If you just read and listen to their experiences you may learn a good deal.

Let me digress from the original topic to that of oils for the earlier engines. Despite the terrific advances in motor oil since the early thirties when they were marginally refined crude oil, none of them can turn a slow-revving, long-stroke, babbit bearing engine into a streaking speed demon. In the era when 65% of the nation's roads were unpaved, 45 mph was a challenging and not commonly reached speed and the cars were geared accordingly. Changing your oil frequently, dropping and cleaning the oil pan regularly, and keeping to the speeds for which the car was originally engineered are probably far more important to good engine life than the specific oil type used. Although there maybe something that appeals to logic about using higher viscosity oils (for cushioning effect?) in the older engines with babbit bearings, it is probably a bad idea. Higher viscosity translates into lower flow rates which transfers into less heat transfer and heat is the major enemy of babbit materials. Thus for these early engines I'd recommend sticking to the viscosity recommended by Packard at the time. If the engine is clean internally, I doubt that it makes a difference whether you use detergent or non-detergent, though the engines of the 33-39 seniors had full-flow oil filters and heat exchangers. I'd make an exception for the Twelves and use detergent single viscosity because they have hydraulic valve clearance dampers with very fine tolerances.

When you get to the advent of the 356 engine and those that follow with hydraulic lifters, a detergent oil is much recommended but again you should insure that the engine is clean inside. If the car was recently purchased and you don't know when it was last done, drop the pan and clean it along with the valve lifter galley. Again, driven sensibly at the speeds for which they were engineered, a single viscosity detergent oil should be fine but likewise a multi-viscosity grade should be OK but I'd avoid SAE10W-40 which is probably the poorest of the bunch due to very high levels of viscosity extenders. If your summertime temperatures are in the range that Packard recommended SAE 40 for, then I'd use SAE15W-40 like Rotella T or Delvac because you can benefit from enhanced additive packages that include anti-scuff additives. In any case those are my opinons, feel free to differ.