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So if we apply the Pete filter we are left with this:

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Only if I get get this to automatically happen everytime he post. Perhaps if he had his own social filter. It must be on back order.

How curious that the first and only person to criticize me for buying an American car is PackardV12fan. If I wasn't fully prepared to ignore his comments before, I sure am now.

V8, not sure how to take your post. I have not been around unions much either. Had glancing relations but in all, my end of the industry has been pretty much non union except for a very nasty period when 1 office location was forced to join after some violence. The factory was another matter entirely as that was all union and seemingly lots of strife and lots of things not done on time because "he can't do that because it's not his job" stuff.

What I was referring to labor/value wise was imaging equipt made in US that sold at the time in the 100-250K range (now it's 500k-1mil. For the same amount, the overseas equipt was much better made and had considerably more bells and whistles because that's what their customers expected and demanded. The German equipt especially was very heavy construction. Hit the side of a table on the European stuff and you'd hurt your hand, on the US stuff you'd see if the table dented. Same with features--functions were included on foreign, and extra cost option on domestic. When our salesmen lost an order, it was always "because we can't sell any cheaper", so since it wasn't because of extra metal, switches and motors what else is left. That company was finally taken over by a foreign one, as was most of the others in the same situation--like I said 6 majors down to 1.

As to cars, the company used Ford for vehicles through 70 to mid 80's. In my experience with a new one every 60K or 2 yrs, the old saying Fix Or Replace Daily was never more appropriate.

P12, as to the Ultra won't go there. Whatever problems (and there were some), I only say that Packard with a few dozen engineers was able to do it before Chrysler and Ford who had hundreds of engineers. Those companies took longer, also had teething problems and they also had the benefit of hindsight and prior work. GM, with thousands of top notch staff, of course was the pioneer but even some of their first attempts were less than spectacular. Studebaker--also much bigger than Packard had to partner with another company.

We need to be a bit tolerant of Packardv12fan. He can't help it because he's a lawyer.

Not sure how he insulted any Lincolns tho. I'm a little slow to catch onto insults anyway even when directed at ME.

As for the American quality issues and price issues i really can not rationalize any blame on labor unions for it.

The rank and file do NOT design the products. Mostly the rank and file are assembly workers NOT engineers or designers or marketers. Rank and file are predominantly low skill workers with the exception of a few Master craftsmen in the R&D labs and maybe drafting. ONE exception was Chrysler during the pre-LAI decades where UAW entered into supervision and maybe even some low level management. Chrysler had bigger problems than unions: Corporate INCEST.


I like this statement:
" When our salesmen lost an order, it was always "because we can't sell any cheaper", so since it wasn't because of extra metal, switches and motors what else is left."

Find out what the SAME equipment sells for in Mexico.
Medical equipment???? Wanna talk medical eq.???
PRice a 350 lb limit Hoyer patient lift at about $1200.00. THEN go price a 2 ton engine hoist at about $600. Analyze THAT!! Whats that extra $600 for anyway??? THE CHEAP ASS chrome on the Hoyer???

How about a handicap Xfer bench??? I've had to modify at least 6 different such benches with toilet seats just so the patients could wash their ass.

Don't get me started on DME. Now if u want to find eng'ring and marketing scams at exhorbant cost just look at the DME industry. I've bought and mofified too god damned much DME to have any respect for any technical skill in that industry of manufacturing.

Believe me, I'm not defending the medical industry prices. I think they are outrageous as well. I don't know about the lift you speak of but it must indeed be awfully expensive chrome--probably guaranteed not to sliver off into someones butt..

Pricing now is determined by the "because they can" method. In my realm, everything is made overseas, in just a few places so that's not the determining factor anymore. As to Mexico (and many many other countries) prices are undoubtedly lower--but then so is everything else. And, since we have this quaint little organization called the FDA to keep happy in the US, there is also a lot of stuff available in those countries that can't be sold here, and a lot of stuff that has been removed for various reasons here goes there which also lowers the price.

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And the closure of the St. Thomas Ontario plant putting another 1400 workers out of a job.