Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Re polarizing, NEVER Bat to Field!, that can be very harmful to the generator.

I've seen a variety of polarizing procedures depending on make and method of regulation, but it's usually accomplished by momentary contact between Bat and Gen (sometimes marked Arm). If in doubt, just Google "generator polarizing".

If I've got this wrong someone will come along and correct me.

no you do have it right is the battery post to the gen. and i checked that is what i did. joe

hay to all
i know this started out as a headliner question and ended up as a charging question. will i had the old girl out to day and found out that the gen. light comes on with the over drive ingauged when i get up to abount 50,55mph. i can turn the over drive off by pulling out the knob and go 60 to 65mph and the light will not come on. any though on what it could be or how i can check out each part in the electricel sys. on the over drive unit. now i can say that i do think the over dive is working due to the engine is not turning as many rpm. and when i let off on the gas pedal the car gose into a cost mode and reingaugs when i press. the gas pedal.

thanks for any help
joseph in TN..

I'd verify the OD solenoid is actually dropping out the "pull in" coil when engaged. There are two coils in solenoid in parallel and a set of contacts inside the solenoid that should open to drop out the heavy or "pull in" coil when pawl fully in position which just leaves the "hold" coil operating. It sounds as if "pull in" is still active and drawing lots of current. If it is and not corrected, you will be replacing the solenoid soon.

thanks for the reply.

do you know the best way to check for this. and if the sol. is still in pull-in how do you repair that. is there a chance that i have the wires hook up backwards. there is one wire coming from the kick down switch and the other is from the relay on the fire wall. as the best that i could i rewired the car to factory. only change was going to a neg. ground due to i installed a 12v battery in the trunk to power the am-fm radio in the trunk. which it turned out pretty good..

thanks for the info.
joe in TN..

Doubtful the wires are incorrect otherwise it shouldn't work at all and just blow fuse or engine would die. There are schematics in the manual and a pictoral wire layout in the first book mentioned below if there is any doubt however.

If the hold in coil is staying energized, there are a few possibilities. One is the contacts have welded, second is there is something broken inside and third, something is jamming pawl so it is not entering far enough into OD case to activate them. To check, the solenoid will have to be removed for access.

There is an overdrive manual that is appropriate for your car
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/BW_OD.pdf which gives instructions on how to remove solenoid--as do the service manuals. Unfortunately there is not much detail on the solenoid itself.

An earlier version manual of an R9 OD & solenoid which is similar in internals configuration solenoid has some good pictures of the solenoid parts including the contacts. Note however, yours being a two wire solenoid is somewhat simpler and only has the groundout and the pull in set--no indicator light.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/TransmissionAndOverdriveTrainingManual.pdf

To test, remove the solenoid. I have had luck carefully inserting in a vise to hold things--try on an ear but be careful not to bend or break anything. A vise is also convenient for holding the wire used to ground the case. If you have an ohm meter, verify the terminals, One lead to case and believe the terminal close to case end and far from plunger is the kickdown and should be open and other should show a short to case. If your meter is sensitive enough, then by keeping it connected to the shorted one pull the plunger out all the way (It will be hard as there is a large spring) and there should be a change in resistance. It will be very slight probably so your meter may not pick it up. If not, using a heavy wire, ground case and touch battery to the shorted terminal which I think is closest to plunger and plunger should snap out. Here's where it gets tricky without good equipment and having done it a few times but if the pull in coil is still active when you remove the wire from the terminal, there will be a spark--probably fairly heavy. The case will also be fairly warm if on for more than a 20-30 seconds. If the pull in coil was disconnected properly by the contacts then the spark will be a lot smaller and case will still be fairly cool. Not sure of any other way to test without having a fairly high amperage meter to measure current or substituting a known good solenoid.

If it appears to be working properly, then look to insertion depth or engagement problems. If the coil is staying on, then remove the back of the solenoid (completely remove the terminal screws as well to pull cover off) and check the internal parts.

will i checked every thing over and found that i did have the wiring hooked up backwards due to i went to a neg. ground. the wire from the relay needs to be hooked up to the #4 terminal and the wire from the kick down switch need to go to the #6 terminal. it will be the other if i stay with the pos.ground. i took the car out and in over drive i can get up to 70mph and the alt. light did not come on. and every thing semes to be working real good now. i have to say thanks for all your help i real do appreciate it...

thanks again
joe in tn..

Little curious how you had or have things hooked up. Is the 12 battery by itself and feeding only one thing or tied into the rest of the car somehow? The fact the fuse didn't blow or when the kickdown switch was engaged, the engine didn't die by ign coil grounding thru the solenoid coil is very interesting. Also don't understand how the solenoid was even coming in to go into overdrive if the coil voltage was going to the ign kill contacts instead of the coil.

Nothing in the car is polarity sensitive other than possibly the factory radio in some circumstances. Many are running neg ground in their car either on purpose or accidentally because a mechanic installed the battery backward at some time in the past and with no ill effect.

In order to have the red light show there had to be some kind of feedback path that allowed the different voltages to interact driving enough through the indicator light for it to glow. The light works by having one side of filament at battery voltage and other side reaching ground thru generator windings. When generator not putting out voltage, then a path is there to light up. Once generator is outputting voltage anywhere close to battery level, then both sides of filament see the same potential and no light. To have it light only when OD selected indicates either generator wasn't charging with enough output because of a huge draw or somehow that 12v had to be on one side of bulb and 6v on the other.

I would be concerned something else may be at risk or possibly already damaged.

when i had the od sol.out and put power to it. it worked when i hook to the #4 terminal and the #6 terminal is to diactdvat it when the gas pedal is press. all the way down and press the kick down switch. i had the power wire from the over drive relay going to the #6 terminal. and when the gov. got up to speed and turn on the over drive the hot wire was shorting out on the over drive sol. case due to it was hook up to the #6 terminal which is the ground on the over drive sol.and was turning on the alt light. thats why when i slowed down the light will go out due to the over drive gov. slowed down and turned the power of to the over driver relay thus turning off the power to the over drive sol.. now when i moved the wire to the #4 terminal which is the power side of the over drive sol. it did not short out any more. and the wire coming from the kick down switch went to the #6 terminal which is is tied in with the coil to make engine coil short out and miss to let the pawl disengage when the kick down switch is actdvated. will this what i get out of it. and it drove good today with no problems.

thanks
joe in TN

p.s. the 12volt battery in the trunk is a stand alone for just the radio and nothing else..