Happy Thanksgiving and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
172 user(s) are online (153 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 2
Guests: 170

BDeB, tuskman, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 ... 4 5 6 (7) 8 9 10 ... 14 »

Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#61
Home away from home
Home away from home

Packard Don
See User information
I did something very similar in the freshly re-cored radiator in my 1956 Clipper Custom by running into a column and smashing the front end. That was the one and only time I ever drove the car!

Posted on: 2023/7/2 17:12
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#62
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Marvin
See User information
Yesterday I used what remained of the radiator to mock up improved mounting brackets to move the radiator an additional ¾” away from the fan. And added rubber isolators to reduce vibration. Ordering another radiator tomorrow. There has been a nagging question of mine from the beginning. Does the ultramatic work? Yesterday I could not help it, I pushed the button, and it went into drive. However, it will not go back into park or neutral. Hence the car is 3 feet forward of where it has been for a year. Today is rain and a good day to familiarize myself with the electrical side of the pushbutton system. I have two wiring diagrams that the only difference I note is the existence of a transmission control relay in one and the other has those circuits running through the automatic park relay. The previous owner has butchered those wires with wire nuts. When I removed the relay, I noticed it is cracked in half underneath, guessing why it was bypassed. I came across a bulletin about bypassing the automatic park relay. Honestly, I would like to have that function. I have noted the electrical path for P, N, & R travels through a pressure switch. I am assuming this is a brake pedal switch. How many amps are these relays rated for (could not find it in the manual) and what is a decent replacement if any, for the automatic park relay?

Attach file:



jpg  20230716_173244.jpg (216.11 KB)
225242_64b46c15504df.jpg 1920X1920 px

jpg  20230716_173252.jpg (247.09 KB)
225242_64b46c1f1b631.jpg 1920X1920 px

jpg  20230716_140700.jpg (627.51 KB)
225242_64b46c2a59750.jpg 1920X1920 px

Posted on: 2023/7/16 17:16
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#63
Home away from home
Home away from home

Ross
See User information
The pressure switch is operated by governor pressure and is mounted on the left side of the trans near the rear. It is easy to jumper around it for other testing. If you don't carry small children in the car who might reach over and punch a button while you are driving, it is not strictly necessary.

The automatic park relay carries few amps as it only has to operate the main relay. It is a most excellent device for enabling one to destroy the park mechanism inadvertently.

Posted on: 2023/7/16 18:20
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#64
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
The pressure switch is a round can like item down on the drivers side of the transmission about midway to the rear of the case. It is normally closed but when car starts moving and governor pressure exceeds a certain amount it opens cutting off power to the P,N, and R buttons. It is a safeguard so you cannot accidentally shift into one of those gears going down the road at any speed over a few mph. If those 3 PBs are not functioning, the pressure switch could be bad or a wire could be disconnected at the switch. There could also be a terminal pushed out and not making contact at the plastic plug under the dash.

The control relay was eliminated in very early production. All it did was connect the two feed wires going to the push buttons to power so in effect it was an on/off switch so trans could not be shifted unless the ign switch was on. When they added the automatic park relay they powered that relay from the ign switch directly by running a wire over to the ballast resistor and connecting to the terminal from ign sw feeding the resistor. Someone realized they could do the same on/off function the control relay was doing by connecting the pushbutton wires directly to the ign sw via the autopark relay energize wire. The ign switch now controlled the PBs without the need for another relay. There was a bulletin soon after advising dealers to remove he control relay and send it back to the factory. Some cars never had that done so there are a few control relays still out there.

There is an Autolite service manual on the pushbutton shift in the literature archive. It is an early manual and the drawings show the control relay. Here is a diagram I modified based on the one from the manual still showing all the switches and relay contacts but without the control relay. The other drawing has the autopark relay removed.

Attach file:



jpg  PB autopark 2.jpg (171.71 KB)
209_64b47ccb3b45d.jpg 1290X897 px

jpg  PB autopark removed.jpg (155.90 KB)
209_64b47ce498c19.jpg 1296X904 px

Posted on: 2023/7/16 18:20
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#65
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Marvin
See User information
Armed with a large print wiring schematic for a 56th series push button selector I went out to the car. It did not take long for me to become very discouraged. There appears to be two ford style starter contactors tucked back in the fender well that appear nowhere in the book. Most of the wires have been spliced, poorly connected, wrong type of wires, and/or just butchered. I found masking tape spliced connections, inline fuses from a different era, and melted insulation. I came across a Packard service technical bulletin 56T-25 56T-25.pdf (packardinfo.com), discussing the removal of the automatic park relay.
Thanks to member HH56, I feel better about taking on the challenge of repairing the wiring.
I am not trying to make this car into a show car, but I want it to be safe and not a fire hazard. I also want it to look authentic. I want it to be an ambassador for a wonderfully engineered machine.
On a side note, I can start the car while drive is engaged. Pretty sure that is wrong.

Attach file:



jpg  Rats nest2.jpg (467.02 KB)
225242_64b711f0e59c3.jpg 1920X1920 px

jpg  unknown relays.jpg (317.44 KB)
225242_64b711fd85d19.jpg 1920X1920 px

Posted on: 2023/7/18 17:28
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#66
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Someone definitely messed up your electric shift relays and wiring. The one without a cover should have a black cap and is the start relay. The automatic park relay should be a silver case 4 terminal relay positioned above it.

The solenoids on the inner fender are for the torsion level.

55 had them under the car along with a single dual circuit limit switch and exposed terminals on the control switch. All those items suffered from moisture issues.

In 56 the TL electrical got an upgrade in moisture proofing and those changes are not mentioned in the SM but are mentioned in some Service Counselor articles and in Tech bulletins. Changes were the control switch got a weathertight enclosure for the terminals, the exposed single limit switch operated by the transverse bars hitting and moving an arm on the switch was changed to two sealed individual switches operated by a cam inside the compensator. New limit switches are the same functionally and schematically but required a change in physical wiring. The solenoids were moved to the inner fender out of the path of any water. Fuses were changed so both come from the same power source which means brake lights are now protected by two fuses, one being the TL motor fuse instead of the body feed fuse. The fuses were relocated and both holders are next to the solenoids instead of one being by the starter and the other inside the car.

The solenoids may look like Ford starter switches but they are most definitely not the same. Starter solenoids need a voltage to operate while the TL solenoids need a ground provided by the control switch to operate. You can buy modern Cole-Hersee solenoids of the proper type if you need to replace one.

Attach file:



jpg  56 with manual TL switch.jpg (94.39 KB)
209_64b71c8937961.jpg 1161X834 px

Posted on: 2023/7/18 18:15
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#67
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Marvin
See User information
Update:
A: ordered another radiator and moved the mounting brackets into the opening, thus tucking the radiator in, away from the fan, by ½”. I did have to trim the side brackets on the replacement radiator by 3/16” on each side. This permits the radiator to be somewhat isolated from excessive vibration. I used a hole saw (3/4”) to cut rubber washers out of a piece of radiator hose, to further reduce the vibration transfer.
B: I was able to deduce that the orange wire coming from the pressure switch on the transmission had no voltage, thus park, neutral, and reverse would not function. I created a temporary jumper, and was able to move her back to the driveway. I do want the pressure switch operational, so I will need to determine if it is a wire issue, or the switch, or both. On a side note, that V8 will hop over a brick like it was not even there.
C: I removed every piece of masking tape, electrical tape, paper tape, and tape I could no longer identify from the harness entering the firewall. I am deeply dismayed by what I discovered and have come to terms that I will have to re-wire that entire harness under the hood. I have ordered 12 colors of automotive grade wire #16 – 100’. What are the other typical gauges of wire used throughout the harness. He has spliced one feed (12 volt) from the starter to 4 loads (sorry I am an electrician). I feel this is very wrong and will be spending this week enlarging a wiring schematic on poster board. Its easy for me to follow and see, when I am under the hood.
D: because I have no brakes other than the emergency brake, I thought it would be a great time to open the master cylinder reservoir and peek. It was not easy to get the cap off, and I could not see directly into the cylinder so I stuck a finger in to determine if any fluid was in there. What I felt, rather surprised me. It felt like dried cottage cheese. So, I took a picture. I will have to pull the master cylinder. Yeah...
Any tips on:
A pulling a master cylinder
B re-wiring a harness and the best connectors and type for the job

Attach file:



jpg  New radiator.jpg (366.54 KB)
225242_64bd4eae073d7.jpg 1920X1920 px

jpg  Sad rats nest.jpg (364.89 KB)
225242_64bd4f0808599.jpg 1920X1920 px

jpg  inside the master cylinder fluid reservoir.jpg (316.31 KB)
225242_64bd4f1901202.jpg 1920X1920 px

Posted on: 2023/7/23 11:02
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#68
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
The brake definitely needs a rebuild. If you are comfortable working on the Treadlevac and know what typical problem areas to look for it is not that hard. If not then I would strongly suggest sending it to Ross or Kanter to rebuild or else get an exchange unit from Kanter or Max. With the master in that condition I would bet the wheel cylinders are just as badly in need of rebuilding and hoses should be changed too.

Several have used a universal GM harness from Painless rather than trying to make their own. Most of the colors will match but don't remember how many circuits were in the harness they used. Am sure someone can fill in that information. Believe everything in the main wire harness is covered and they come with a decent fuse block too. The TL loom and maybe the power window loom would be a DIY build.

If you do want to go ahead and make your own, in addition to 16 ga which was used for most of the harness, there is a short bunch of 18s for the dash lights and a couple of 14 gauge runs for headlights. I believe 12 was used on the battery feed from solenoid to various places but it could have been 14. If I were making a harness I would use 12. Packard was not terribly concerned about splices in looms and did it fairly often. In some cases I think their wire size choice was marginal. The power wire from solenoid to various switches and components did use more than one splice. TL would need at least a 14 feed to solenoids and motor but since there is a 30 amp fuse in 56, maybe 12 between starter solenoid and TL solenoids. 16 is OK for control wiring. Power windows IMO, should be all 14 with maybe a 12 in the run from the solenoid to CB on firewall. If you are going to replace those, once you tear into your old you could just match the sizes in the new harness.

Fuses are another issue. 55 was the first year they actually offered a fuse block and the 7 easy to get at fuses was a step up. Previously it was all inline fuses which could be found almost anywhere. There were still a fair number of the inline fuses used in 55 and 56 though.

There were still a few inline Wade connectors used but today those are getting harder to find and expensive. Most can be replaced with modern .250 male and female quick connects. Any of the original bullet connectors can be replaced with modern .156 diameter bullets and sockets. New bare sockets or individual pieces for most bulbs can be bought from Rhode Island Wiring or Y n Z Yesterdays Parts. A few of the original plugs and sockets will probably need to be reused. I have had some luck drilling out the old wire from a terminal and resoldering new wire in the hole.

Posted on: 2023/7/23 13:11
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#69
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Marvin
See User information
Managed to free up some time last weekend to remove the master cylinder and box it up to send to Ross. Spoke with him on the phone a couple of weeks ago, great guy. donated some to Kevin and will again in the future, but I really wanted to say thanks to everyone in the group. There is no way I would have gotten this far without your help. Can't wait to drive her. Next is rewiring under the hood and the instruments.

Posted on: 2023/8/23 17:20
 Top  Print   
Like (1)
 


Re: Resurrecting my 56’ Patrician
#70
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Marvin
See User information
Today I opened the front door to check on the weather. It is way more accurate than the local meteorologists. To discover a box. It was from Speedwell Garage and contained my treadle-vac master cylinder that I sent Ross. He did a great job, and it is a shame that once installed, it will be hard to see. Now I just need the rain to go away.

Attach file:



jpg  20230923_154852.jpg (292.29 KB)
225242_650f4aaae3a67.jpg 1920X1920 px

Posted on: 2023/9/23 15:29
 Top  Print   
Hug (1)
 




« 1 ... 4 5 6 (7) 8 9 10 ... 14 »





- The following Google Ad-Sense Advert helps fund the cost of providing this free resource -
- Logged in users will not see these. Please Join and Donate to help support the website -
Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Upcoming Events
32nd Annual Florida Packard Club Meet
01/26/2025
46th Annual Texas Packard Meet
04/03/2025 - 04/06/2025
Packard Salon - Calling All Twelves
05/27/2025 - 05/29/2025
58th Annual National Meet
05/31/2025 - 06/06/2025
AACA Fall Meet (Hershey)
10/06/2025 - 10/10/2025
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved