Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Believe Mat in Australia used his emerg brake as did Rowdy when his BTV failed a few weeks ago. As Eric said, a manual conversion is very possible and some have done it.

The biggest problem for those wanting to keep it all Packard is finding the parts since there is none of the power setup usable except maybe a modified toe plate. 55-6 manual pedals complete are hard to come by because there weren't very many to start with. A fair number of those were clutch only with a spacer on the brake side because the cars had power brake so not all pieces needed are there.

51-4, aside from the extra work needed to make them function because of different master location, will inevitably be scarce before long. Easamatic was promoted from 52 on as the latest and greatest and at relatively low cost. Retrofit kits and instructions were available to convert 51s in the promotion so I imagine even in those years the proportion of power setup was fairly high. Another obstacle to earlier pedal is the looks. Manual brakes with Ultramatic in V8s had a different pedal. Wider and maybe a bit closer to floor bringing it more in line with the power pedal look than the conventional manual and clutch setup. To the purists, not having that look is almost as bad as the modern booster.

At least one poster bought aftermarket pedals and had them modified to work a power setup under the floor--believe with the Electro-boost. Have not seen any pictures or a report on how it works.

If you're using the floor pedals from a '51-'54 manual brake car you can just use the toe board, it's a direct swap and that's what I did on my '56 Patrician. It's flat, and looks cleaner too with a conversion as compared to the BTV version with it's recess for the booster.

The problem with using the 51-54 Manual brake setup on a '55/56 is the TL stuff being in the way. The 51-54 the master cylinder is forward of the firewall on the frame rail near right behind the steering box. The linkage is canterleavered so the pedal arcs under the floor, and then actuates forward into the master cylinder.

55/56 manual master cylinders are mounted under the floor along the frame rail. So if you have TL, you really have to find a 55/56 manual brake setup.

I have looked and cannot find a modern master cylinder that is a direct drop in replacement for the 51-56 manual master cylinder for two reasons.

1) The fact the master cylinder mounts with bolts through the side of its case into the frame. All modern cylinders I have found mount via the back of the cylinder.

2) You can't really fab up a "L" bracket to support the modern "rear-mount" master cylinder in the stock location as the rear bolt of the stock master cylinder doubles as a pivot point for the transmission linkage. So if you put a modern master cylinder there, it would be right in the way.

I have often wonder if the one of the those after marker underfloor setups would be best that includes an arc'd pedal.

Eric,

I missed the meaning of Allied Signal comment. Are they historically important in the development of the BTV?

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Honestly if I was going to insist on having one under the floor that's the way I'd go. That's why I said "Can't answer the first question, but on the second one you can modify '51-'54 manual setup to fit the '55-'56 cars. It takes a little bit of doing but it's possible." in my previous post. The pedals themselves are directly interchangeable, but you're going to have to do a little rigging to get it to work correctly.

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Yeah, Bendix merged with Allied Signal in 1982, so it's the same company now.

I don't have much to add to these great answers, but I was thinking along the lines of a "modern" master cylinder on the firewall, since a switch from Ease-A-Crash to manual brakes would be patently non-original, so why stop there--except if it could be better-hidden as with the underfloor unit. Heck, you could probably slap the old molded-rubber "Ease-A-Matic" brake pad onto a '55 and hide the switch even better. Wonder why they did away with that bit of in-car advertising in '56-- already having troubles, maybe?

Being that my interest is hypothetical and maybe "aesthetic" more than a practical engineering reality, I can just add that much.

Sorry I missed the earlier posts dealing with retro-fits -- I thought I had read through the whole thread. My bad.

Seems there is a lot of knowledge about BTV on PackardInfo that hasn't cross-pollinated yet. There are also other threads on this issue, but nothing really seems to have pulled the topic together. Is this another opportunity for a replacement-oil-pump-type thread that could get to an eventual recommended fix?

Things that make 'em stop, in my book, are vastly more important than things that make 'em go-- which is why I have a strict policy to never mess with brake work on my vehicles. It's just a bit too scary for me, as are steering repairs, for the same reasons.

One sort of reverse-engineering thought on the BTV that I might add is based on a statement I recall from, I believe, an earlier thread, The poster said that the "Treadle-Vac" setup was used widely on other cars of the era. I wonder if the same problems existed for those cars as they aged, and if any fixes have been found by collectors of these other makes?

Wouldn't it be nice if the answer was already "out there?" Nah, not as much fun.

Guy, the biggest problem with the BTV issue is that you have die hard originality-minded and people who just want the cars to be safe to drive. There is no one single solution, because each has their advantages and each has their drawbacks.

The problems existed on every car that the BTV was used on, but I'm thinking that failures are more prevalent in Packards because of the location of the unit. Heat, moisture, and poor design leads to failure in any mechanical device. It just sucks that it has to be a safety issue as well. You can argue the merits of changing it out until you're blue in the face, but you're still going to have people who swear by it and falsely think it's a safe thing to have on their cars.

If I can get time this weekend, I'm going to make a video on how to properly disassemble and analyze the BTV.

Eric,

Thanks for the feedback. When you say location of the Ease-A-Crashtic is a factor, though, how does the Packard setup differ that much? I thought the one-piece power-brake-disaster-in-a-drum setup would essentially be an underfloor unit on any vehicle, and subject to the same awful conditions? (However, I wouldn't count this as an excuse anyway, as most brake parts, lines, etc. have to put up with those same conditions and perform reliably.)

I'm no apologist for the setup, but I think it's a clever package in some ways, and gave the cars an excellent, sharp (and reassuring!) braking response and pedal feel, just too bad they gave a false sense of safety. A dual system (or at least a warning system, kind of like the excellent fluid-level idea), if it could fit the same space and be sealed off from the elements better, could be an incremental improvement, I guess.

Could an Allied-Signal or old Bendix parts catalog possibly list the various BTV units and the makes that they fit? It would sure be interesting to see what the differences (improvements?) might have been for different car makes and model years. In fact, I'll search around a bit if no one has looked at this angle before.

I just get a bad feeling thinking that a fellow V8 Packard fan's untimely demise could be traced to a failed BTV, or to a well-intentioned but unsuccessful retrofit.

Nothing's perfect, and accidents happen, but I just think taking reasonable steps for improving the odds is always a good idea. Unless the future of classic "motoring" is eventually to be trailer-queens only... not likely for the Packard bunch!

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"... the "Treadle-Vac" setup was used widely on other cars of the era."

Yes, that argument is often used. There is a problem with it.

If we consider the era of 1952 thru say 1965 a span of 13 years it is my estimation (with no documentation to back it up) that less than 25% of ALL cars REGARDLESS OF MANUFACTURER came with power brakes.

I'll even hazard a guess that most people that got their drivers license in the early 50's never even drove a car more than 100 miles at the max with power brakes, power steering nor automatic transmission until the late 50's or early 60's let alone even owned such a car.

Yes, i was born at nite. But it wasn't last nite.