Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hello,

I'm almost a noob on Packards and came here hoping to learn. I'm closing in on being 50 years old in a couple of years and have been building cars since I was 15. Intro, there, done.

I am asking you gentlemen to educate me on Packard inline eights and their differences. My main interest is in the 9-bearing blocks and especially aluminum ones.

I've read about post-war 327 and 359 ones but the pre-war aluminum ones are more difficult. Were they all 9-bearing or not? What kind of bores and strokes were offered? Which are good ones and bad ones (if any)? Forged or cast cranks?

I'm asking for your help. Thank you.

I've understood there's a 316cid L8 engine? Was it a 9-bearing? How about journal diameters?

If you get yourself a copy of a Motors Repair Manual from the early fifties it will have tables with the specs going back to the twenties. Displacement, HP, torque, bearing diameters are all there. All the straight eights had forged cranks.

Your response could write volumes. Probably purchase an available reprint on the subject. I can tell you all the Std and Su8 '30s engs have 9 mains. Those two series have different cranks and bearings thru the yrs. Plus the brg clearance varies w/ the brg alloy. Do you have a specific plan w/ one of these engs? Or just curious?
David

I do have a specific plan with one of these engines. I am not asking to only get more knowledge, I plan to put it into use in the form of an old 1930's race car recreation.

I would need the most intelligent and sturdiest straight eight bottom end for this as I have seen what happens with 5-bearing cranks when you ask too much from the engine.

Motors Repair Manual from the early fifties sounds interesting. How do I know I've found the right one online? I'd assume there might a number of books by this name on the market. Who wrote it? When published? Etc?

Thank you for the replies.

All the aluminum crankcase 8-cylinder models were 9-main bearing. Bores varied with the year and model, 3-3/16 for the 320 version, 3/3-8 and 3-1/2 for the 385 version. Stroke was constant at 5 inches. There was no 316 cubic inch model to my knowledge. You might also want to note that the 1st and 2nd series "big" Eight has a different crankshaft configuration and consequently a different firing order. As Ross says, get any Motor's that covers the 30s.

Just checked, there are tons of them for sale on ebay right now. Just look for the big blue book about 2 inches thick. This, along with Chiltons was the standard auto repair manual outside of factory publications. Each book covers all available American autos of that year, and go backwards at least oh, 20 years or so.

What kind of race car? GP or dirt track recreation?

There's more to it than that. The number of main bearings itself lengthens the crank, and Packard eights, sturdy, well-engineered as they were, were never about high rpm but low-speed torque, smooth tractability.

Duesenberg's Model J/SJ 420-ci dohc straight eight had but five main bearings, but they were wide. Buick's ohv 320-ci straight eights, babbitt bearings aside, were runners, as was Hudson's flathead, splash-oiled 254-ci straight eight, 3 x 4 1/2, hp rated at a very high for the 1940s 4,200 rpm. Both these engines had five mains. The stock Hudson straight eight propelled English Railtons, a sporting car driven in hill climbs and other competition and by the London police as pursuit vehicles. In 1940, Augie Duesenberg was selling a marine version of the Hudson eight.

You might consider finding one of Packard's unsung, woefully underrated but excellent engines, a five-mained 288-ci eight from 1948-on.
The cars weren't much to look at in those years, Packard more interested in their more lucrative jet engine contracts, phoning in increasingly me-too product, no independent able to approach Big Three unit costs, parts buying leverage, or afford the now "necessary" annual model changes and TV advertising.

Packard's 288 has like most Packard eights of the '30s, '40s, a 3 1/2-inch bore, but a mere 3 3/4-inch stroke, same as the 1936-37 Cord's Lycoming V-8 which stood up well to supercharging with only three mains.

Packard's 288 was used in the lower lines 1948-54, and there are plenty of donor cars about otherwise not worth restoring. It's a rugged, husky, well built, trouble-free engine and buying and rebuilding one won't bankrupt you. It shares the same 2.75-inch main journal diameter as all the other Packard straight eights of the '30s and beyond, as well as the Duesenberg J/SJ and long-produced Jaguar XK dohc six.

Keep us posted on your race car. In the days of the Depression Indianapolis 500 stock block "junk formula," a Packard One-Twenty (3 1/4 x 4 1/4, five mains) straight eight did well in the 1937 race 'til its clutch gave out.

There's irony right there. I had a '47 with the 288 but I sold it. The car itself was in horrendous condition but engine, trans (manual with overdrive) and frame with suspension was good. Oh well.

The recreation will be a GP-car. A copy of something that was campaigned in Europe during 1930-50's. The original is long gone but I managed to see old paper photos of it long time ago and never was able to forget it.

Then you know about the Alfetta and other GP straight eights of the era. Mercedes-Benz campaigned a straight eight as late as 1955 which was leading Le Mans 'til the awful crash that killed 80 spectators that year. Mercedes immediately withdrew leaving the race to Jaguar.

Have often wondered why M-B fielded a straight eight so late in the game, but have found no conclusive engineering discussion to date.

Keep us posted and please share pictures of the finished project. All best.

BTW, GP racer Count Trossi, who owned all manner of era straight eight super cars, road and track, was a Packard distributor in Italy in the '40s, enjoyed his '47 Super Clipper much as Ettore Bugatti preferred an earlier Packard Eight on business trips over his own skittish but beautifully wrought products.

I am well aware of the supercharged 8C Alfas. I was in Sonoma raceway, NorCal at classic races few weeks ago and there was one. I talked to the gentleman who owned it and was blown away by the car. Awesome machine in every aspect, loved the sound. Obviously it had a triggering effect on me.