Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Hi, john,

has anyone brought up, bleeding the line, crack the fitting at inlet of filter,, let a little gas out,but watch the bubble in the bowl, open and close the fitting.

l have done and it works for me. Also without the ceramic element, it should fill up. if not do above.

l think the ceramic has air trapped in it. l have so many inline filters that l leave out the ceramic.

rik

ps. forgot to add,,,this is done with engine running

I puzzled over this glass bowl issue with my vintage boat's inboard automobile engine for years. How does it keep running without fuel at the top of the bowl? I observed everything discussed here and never came up with a satisfactory answer, except that there is enough fuel in the carb when the bowl is not at the top to keep it running.

My first glass bowl had a sintered metal filter disk of some kind that floated on top of the gasoline. I took it out and the bowl did seem to stay full more of the time. I would also periodically "bleed" the air out in much the same manner as described (really messy in a boat, even using a can to catch the overflow). Usually I did this only before starting because it really decreased cranking time.

Then I switched to a pleated filter element that just floated in the bowl. Essentially, this proved to me that there was no way gas could get to the line at the top of the bowl if it was not full: the filter element floated up and sealed ONLY when the bowl was full, so why have a filter at all if the unfiltered gas could get through when the bowl was partially full?

This whole glass bowl "filter" thing is kind of a misnomer. Sometimes a filter element is used, but it's really just a sediment bowl where particles can settle out if they're heavy enough, and a "sight glass" to check on fuel flow, quality, and especially water, which it will also separate out before it gets to the carb--and definitely stop the fuel flow.

It was a stupid setup for my boat, because the sediment bowl sat at the front of the engine where a broken water pump belt could easily have knocked it off its mounting (the bowl glass is so thick I didn't worry about it breaking).

So, the solution? Out of sight out of mind! I stuck on a metal in-line filter (actually two) in place of the bowl and that was the end of that. If it doesn't start, I do the "bleed" thing first-- much easier to do with a line--and if that doesn't work, I just replace the filters, for which I always carry spares. Using two of them adds a little insurance-- the first one in line is most likely the clogged one, and if I only have one replacement, I just replace that one. If for some reason I don't have any replacements, there's enough flexible line to connect just the second one.

I also use an in-line bronze element filter before the electric fuel pump.

But it's an old boat with an old gas tank, and every precaution must be taken. And, of course, I don't care about the "period correct" thing when it could leave me sitting dead in the water.

Come to think of it, have you ever noticed how much "air" there is at times in a clear plastic in-line filter? A whole 'nother kettle o' fish!

I've also wondered occasionally about the partially full filter bowls (on the pressure side) as well, but never had a fuel problem despite the fact that there was usually some air at the top.

As to "sediment" bowls, they are invariable on the suction or intake side of pump and never show any air space. Senior Packards up until about 1939 used glass bowls with a fine brass screen above to prevent fluid turbulence from allowing any of the sediment to pass on into the pump internals. Most of the double action post war pumps use a metal cup sediment bowl, again with a screen. But the filter you discuss with the pleated paper element that "floats" must be improperly sized or installed, the element fits securely to the casting at the top so that no fuel can get around it. Take it apart and I suspect you'll find the problem.

Thanks guys, it seems I'm not the only one who has wondered about this issue and maybe the explanation I tendered in my last post is too simplistic. Riki, I'll give your idea of bleeding the system a try as it won't be too hard to do. Also, I have fitted two inline filters on the system, one before the electric pump at the rear of the car and one after the mechanical pump before the carby, so the ceramic filter is not really needed for filtration purposes. I have only left it in place because I like the original look of the glass bowl on the carby and it's part of it. So the question is, should I dump it like Riki did?

As I write this darkness has fallen and it's been raining quite heavily on and off all day, which is a round about way of saying that I'm relying on memory and don't feel like going out to the shed tonight to check my facts. Will tomorrow though. Anyway, memory tells me that the glass bowl is tensioned up on the ceramic filter. This being the case, if the filter is left out it presumably must be replaced with something else - some sort of spacer (?). Riki, is this how you did it and if so, did you use anything special? I'll report back after tomorrow's bleeding session and if anything of interest is obvious, I'll try to get a pic of it and post it as well. Cheers for now, John

Hi, john,

I have the same set up, filter tank, before, after pump. remove spring and ceramic, put bowl back on.

start engine, if you see air bubble, tap the filter, and start bleeding. Tapping your trying to move the bubble. but it should fill right up.

the ceramic, for looks, maybe remove the inside cone. so gas goes right up to carb. i like carby,,,

riki,,g'day.

The ceramic element filter such as Carter (55/56) and AC are extremely efficient filters. Problems generally come from improper or incomplete cleaning. Many people just use a compressed air gun and blow them, but if you do this in the direction of the fuel flow all you do is further imbed the debris into the pores of the ceramic. Solvent soaking with lacquer thinner is good, and perhaps better is ultrasonic cleaning. But regardless of which,when you blow them dry, remember to blow in the opposite direction to the fuel flow.

Owen,

would that remove that powdery rust?,,with three filters it still gets in carb.

that stuff has to plug up the ceramic. i don't see how it could be removed even ultra.


rik

would that remove that powdery rust?,,with three filters it still gets in carb. that stuff has to plug up the ceramic. i don't see how it could be removed even ultra.

It sounds like you're got a pretty serious gas tank problem, probably the best is to remove and clean the tank and coat if necessary. I typically clean my filter bowl and element every 5 or so years and even then never find anything noteworthy in the bowl.

But to answer your question I'd think compressed air blowing in reverse flow would dislodge rust particles, but if in doubt soak the element in some warm oxalic acid solution - it will dissolve the rust. Oxalic is found at most hardware stores in the paint section.

PS - dilute hydrochloric (muriatic) acid would also be effective - but read and follow the label precautions. You might try something like a 10% solution by volume.

I think with the ceramic filter the inside of the element is full when the motor is running and the little air pocket is not in the flow path. If you try to blow through the element you can't, but if you blow through the output side you can. You know fuel is moving because the pump is pushing 2 qts per minute.

I like those little ceramic things because it's a piece of nifty engineering that doesn't have a use anymore.

owen,,

the tank is, pretty rusty, the tank is full of 1996 gas, the year the car went down,

when the time comes, i will need to drain it, then i will try baking soda in the blaster....

rik