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Joe,

In looking at your photos of the distributor internals, showing the points closed and then open, I may be mistaken, but see what looks like an uninsulated primary lead to the point set. If so, this wire could easily touch a ground and there would be no spark. It may not be the cause of the problem you are dealing with now, but it could cause problems.

Don't you just hate it when you have done something to improve things only to have the improvement cause a problem. Happens to me all the time.

(o[]o)

Per usual, Gentlemen, this has been both educational and amusing.

Tim, that's an excellent diagnostic for this problem. I had no idea the OD could close (ground out) the ignition. Gee I tore the car half apart. First pulling the solenoid, when all it was was a loose wire on the OD lockout switch. Last week I finally properly mounted my instrument panel, which required pulling the center panel. I most likely nudged the OD wire doing that, JW.

Then this "no ignition" problem. I did check the OD fuse which didn't look blown (the length was solid, but looked like it melted on one end. So I replaced the fuse with a new 30A, but when I compressed the fuse housing, the end snapped off. It's a very heavy wire and the soldered tip. I think, was too small for this size wire. Only the center strands were soldered cuz the others would not have fit in it. I replaced it temporarily with a new fuse housing attached to the original wires with wire nuts. But of course that didn't solve the problem.

The battery, after all the tries to start, was low, so I put it on a charger and trickled it on 2A all the way to the green light, which takes a day.

Because I didn't know about carbon wires, I thought the wire was faulty because it wouldn't spark when grounded. I was having problems last year and the $5000 diagnostic tool said it was my spark plug wires. The were the black ones with real wire and shellac or something that made them shiny and looked original. They looked beautiful. I hated to see them go. Especially replacing them with a BLUE Napa Belden wire set. That's how the carbon was introduced. The shop where I take my Brand X installed them. Yesterday was my first time taking a look at them.

I bought a new coil to distributor wire. Then I bought a new coil. Of course, removed this stuff and the oil bath air cleaner. How it goes (for me).

I woke up this morning feeling so great, now that it starts. It's a rainy day (you don't have to save anything for one in Portland, but you do save up things to do on a sunny day), so I haven't done a test drive yet.

I won't use sandpaper anymore, even 2000 3M imperial wetordry. That it one tool I'll add to the collection. Remember, Randy, I started out my restoration the The Duchess with only a pair of pliers.

Thanks, again.
Joe

Here's a shot Father's Day weekend on the way to a family meet-up crossing the Canby, OR Ferry which runs 24 hours a day.

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Pass the Prozac. The test drive did not go well. About 5 feet into the driveway and then back in the garage.

The overdrive lockout sleeve is jammed. I can't put the car in reverse. I disconnected the solenoid again. I may have had the solenoid spacer upside down. In the Transmission section p17 of 14th-20th Service Manual, the only consequence is the car won't go into overdrive. However...

The solenoid spacer hole is offset, and sticking my finger in the solenoid hole in the OD, it feels like the offset should be forward not aft. If so

The overdrive lockout sleeve (on page 22) gets stuck because of the lubricant or a weak spring. But mine is really stuck now. I tried working the shift level into reverse, but it won't go. And I can't move the level after disconnecting the control linkage.

Am I doomed?

I know I'm not the first one to make this mistake. It sure would be nice if the piece were marked or there was some mention in a manual of which way is correct. That wouldn't be difficult. My spacer has two small holes besides the center (offset, of course) and the mounting cap screw holes. They are on the same side of the spacer as the center hole is offset.... and I think they should be toward the front of the car based on my finger in the hole test. But I am guessing and I'm not usually right.


The yellow, green, and black wires that connect to terminals 3,6, and 4 shoudl be toward the rear. In my owner's shop manual for 1940 160 it specifies the view of these three terminals as a rear view.

Pass the Prozac. The test drive did not go well. About 5 feet into the driveway and then back in the garage.

The overdrive lockout sleeve is jammed. I can't put the car in reverse. I disconnected the solenoid again. I may have had the solenoid spacer upside down. In the Transmission section p17 of 14th-20th Service Manual, the only consequence is the car won't go into overdrive. However...

The solenoid spacer hole is offset, and sticking my finger in the solenoid hole in the OD, it feels like the offset should be forward not aft. If so

The overdrive lockout sleeve (on page 22) gets stuck because of the lubricant or a weak spring. But mine is really stuck now. I tried working the shift level into reverse, but it won't go. And I can't move the level after disconnecting the control linkage.

Am I doomed?

I know I'm not the first one to make this mistake. It sure would be nice if the piece were marked or there was some mention in a manual of which way is correct. That wouldn't be difficult. My spacer has two small holes besides the center (offset, of course) and the mounting cap screw holes. They are on the same side of the spacer as the center hole is offset.... and I think they should be toward the front of the car based on my finger in the hole test. But I am guessing and I'm not usually right.



The yellow, green, and black wires that connect to terminals 3,6, and 4 shoudl be toward the rear. In my owner's shop manual for 1940 160 it specifies the view of these three terminals as a rear view.

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Others who have had spacer problems can best advise on that and how to free the sleeve and OD without removing the unit. That was the big issue with R9s. Anything electrical or mechanical that kept the solenoid engaged could risk damage or lockup to OD when placed in reverse. There was a reverse safety switch introduced later to prevent electrical problems from energizing the solenoid.

The solenoid and relay both have terminal numbers stamped. Solenoid on the steel case near terminals and relay on the terminal tabs under the little square washer. You can verify wiring in that respect and also verify the hookup to the governor.

If you have the 2 wire governor, might verify connection or if shorted. OD wire should be open to ground when car is sitting. The wire for OD is the one coming from bare terminal more toward center of bakelite bottom. The one used for Electroclutch equipped comes from a raised section more toward the edge and usually covered with tar. If no clutch, that wire is normally just secured out of harms way.

Sorry, Howard, my descriptions are not always so step-by-step.

I removed the solenoid originally because the OD was intermittent and then wouldn't engage at all. The book suggested that the solenoid contact might need cleaning. Water gets in there, etc. In rains here as you know. But it also said to check the connections, which I didn't do. Had I checked the OD switch under the dash, I would have found the problem, reconnected the loose wire (there are 2) on the switch and I'm sure everything would have been fine.

I have just freed up the OD lockout sleeve. I pulled out the solenoid. Took the car off jack stands, started it (fires right up -- makes me laugh), and put it in 1st, rolled forward a bit, and then tries reverse and it went right in. So sleeve is free.

Now I'm waiting to hear which direction the spacer goes. I think West did this recently and someone asked him if the spacer was in there correctly, and he said yes. It only goes in one way (unless Joe does it). I'll wait for some wisdom from the universe before re-installing.

I'll take some pix of the governor when I lift the car up again and add them here.

Thanks...again
Joe

Glad OD was able to be freed. I didn't realize it had worked before so obviously the spacer must be the issue. Will leave my post up though for a suggestion of things to check for anyone else who might need to troubleshoot a similar issue.

That lockup issue was serious enough that the safety switch was introduced - even suggested an install on earlier cars where the problem had occurred - and finally the change to R11s. Packard had a program where R11s could be retrofitted on some earlier cars if the issue persisted and a customer wanted to buy the unit.

I think I better start a thread relating to OD, if I expect an answer to the spacer question.