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I live in Vancouver, WA. Mr Moe is in Northern Wa. In the past 2 years I've had 3 occasions to email Mr Moe and request availability of Packard parts.......I've NEVER had an answer. But that's okay, I'm still able to get the needed parts elsewhere.

With all due respect Big Kev, no doubt Mr Moe would answer your email, negative publicity from you on this forum would be "the kiss of death" to his "side business". Just saying.

OK, as I last reported, David finally contacted me on 7/31 and said it was OK for me to return the items. Keep in mind that I had paid $750 total back on 5/22 and the only thing I can actually keep is the rebuilt water pump. I sent them to him on 8/2 and UPS delivered them to him on 8/8. So far I have heard nothing back from him and there has been, as of this morning, no refund back to my credit card. Today is the 24th so he has had the returned items for 16 days with no word from him.

Now, I can agree with Kevin that people working part-time at this and full-time at another job need to be given a little leeway and understanding but I think that I've been overwhelmingly patient with Mr. Moe. At this point I would have to warn people away from doing business with him. IF he ever gets back to me and does the right thing as a business person then I will post that information here as well. Until then I strongly urge you to avoid Seattle Packard.

Gene

I was finally able to reach David Moe tonight and he stated he was at a Packard show in CA and planned to send my refund this week. I told him I expect it this next week. If I get it I'll let you know and if not I'll fill charges with the BBB and consider other possible action considering that he has both my money and the parts now. I truly hope he will finally do the right thing in a timely manner.
Gene

Finally, things have gotten settled. It cost me $750 for the parts including shipping. It cost me about $60 to send the parts back to him that were either the wrong part or were defective parts. He sent me $200. That was about the original quoted price for the two parts I sent back. He said that he was giving me credit for the shipping but I don't see it.

Where did he come up with the amount to send me? He said that this is what he was able to sell them for at the Swap Meet. Personally, I do not think that what he sold the for should have anything to do with what he refunded me. I felt that he should have refunded both the price I paid and my return shipping since the error was entirely his. BUT, I am happy that I go anything at all since I was beginning to think that (1) I had sent my money to him in good faith, (2) he sent me a defective part and the wrong part, (3) I returned them, and (4) I was going to lose my initial investment plus the return shipping.

The bottom line? I will not do business with Seattle Packard again, ever. And, I cannot endorse them to others. I am truly sorry to have to feel this way but 4 months is extremely too long to go with minimal communication and feeble refund. I do realize that he needs to make a profit. I too have a small business but I had rather have a happy customer and lose money than to have an unhappy customer. If I sold someone a defective part I would refund the full purchase price within 48 hours and pay for the return shipping with full apologies to that customer. That way I know that customer would come back again.

Gene

What kind of parts did u buy????

Quote:
" He sent me $200. That was about the original quoted price for the two parts I sent back. He said that he was giving me credit for the shipping but I don't see it."

"credit" most likely means toward your next purchase from him. But from your post it is not clear just exactly what kind of money u are shorted other than original postage to send parts to u and the return postage of $60.00.

All parts are for a 39 Super 8. There was a rebuilt water pump, left front fender bracket, pair of front fender supports, front motor mount, and cone(?) support. The front motor mount was just the timing cover and not the piece we had discussed on the telephone. That conversation is covered in a previous post. What he called a cone support, if I am reading his writing properly, is actually the radiator collar and it had a piece cut out of it and was therefore defective. I got permission to return the defective collar and the timing cover. The items are not itemized on the invoice he sent (with the refund, none with the original shipment) but I remember him quoting in the $150 range for the collar. I do not remember exactly the price on the engine mount. Again, there was a lot of confusion on that piece initially and he and I talked about it and came to the conclusion that there was a saddle that linked the timing cover with the two side mounts in the front. I've gone into details with pictures in a previous post when asking for help (that I received a lot of contradictory answers on). Long story short, I had even sent him a picture of the front of the engine showing the existing timing cover.

By the way, credit towards my next purchase would be worthless considering the length of time I've had to deal with this and the poor communication I've received.

Gene

IMO, Packard owners stick together by helping each other, answering questions and participating in local, national and international forums. We derive satisfaction and insight into what other owners are doing and how they are doing it. We feel good when help is offered, and due to our own unique experiences are able to help other owners. This is not because we have to, rather, because we want to. All this having been said, we all know when we deal with a retailer that mistakes happen, some retailers take the high road and make it right, or, offer a compromise when the issue is not exactly clear. But, no matter how big or small an issue is, the telling truth is how the retailer treats his customers. It's too bad that "Seattle Packard" has displayed his attitude toward a Packard owner who in good faith sent money to commit to a "deal" given to him by the retailer and then spends months trying to recoup his money or proper parts.
My feelings are rather strong on the subject and I do side with Gene in this matter. I personally have not bought a part from SP. While I've had no problems, (well, some, but always solved to our mutual satisfaction) from the likes of Tusc. Packard, Max M, Kanter, and fellow Packard forum members, in buying, using, returning parts/cores etc., It's too easy to leave the marginal suppliers out and save the unnecessary grief. Again, IMHO.......

Dear Gene:

Don't feel bad. One time I drove to Detroit to pick up a Caddy 12 for someone. The address was a vacant lot.

There's nothing worse than buying the wrong parts when someone is glad just to get rid of them. However, I would practice using the parts book so that confusion is reduced.

I think a couple of the parts you wanted are called the "channel assembly", and "insulator retainer" in Engine Group 5.16 of the parts book. The only risk here is that if you order by part number and you specify the wrong number the vendor doesn't have to give you a refund. However, if you order by part name and they send you a part for the wrong model car you are not on the hook.

Sixty dollars is pretty steep for shipping those parts and I hate UPS for anything except business parcels. The post office has some very good rates and they aren't prima donnas like UPS. However, the insurance rates are absolutely sky high.

Also if a vendor has a cell phone you can request a picture of the parts he is going to sell you via email.

Some of these vendors can be a little bit hard to understand. For example, I have had vendors get mad at me because I recommended their services to someone. I think that's a little strange. Bill Hirsch has always appreciated my endorsements of his products, so he gets the most. Max Merritt's people never got pissed off because I gave somebody their number.

It comes with the territory.

I'll play devils advocate here. Because nobody else has chimed in on Seattle Packards behalf. I do not know him personally, but have met David Moe at the Portland swap meet a few times. I have not bought anything from him or his company. So this is just my humble opinion and what I have seen.

Seattle Packard seems to me, to be a small part time business run by a young/middle aged guy who has a daytime job, and a family. He isn't retired, doing this as a hobby. I believe he tried to do Seattle Packard full time back in the 90's, but it just wasn't doing the kind of revenue that make it profitable enough to sustain a family on. He was mostly doing used parts, a long with some small new parts. His inventory of new stuff was pretty minimal. He used to have a spot at the Portland Swap Meet every year pretty consistently, but the past 5 years haven't seen him out there with a spot. Just doing some shopping. The past 6 years have been terrible for the small mom & pop auto businesses. Many have sold out, or closed up, or just crushed what they had and walked away. Many suppliers/yards I have used are no longer around.

As for your customer service problem with him, it sounds to me like he was in over his head in regards to refunding the money to you ASAP. From your post you say he had to sell it first to recoup your money to send to you. Which he did. It might not have been in a timely manor, but he could have just told you "tough. No returns" which I have had happen to me a number of times in the old car hobby.

As for shipping parts back and forth and wanting shipping reimbursements? That's just part of the risk you take when ordering parts across the country or anywhere else for that matter. Especially 50-75 year old used parts. Napa doesn't reimburse me gas money or time spent for having to drive back up to them to return a part they sold me that was wrong. I've had to send parts back to suppliers plenty of times, and their polices have always been "We warranty the part, not the labor to put it in or the transportation costs back." The part you got was not defective, it was just the wrong part. Its kind of hit and miss when it comes to this situation. Was the part ordered wrong or did the parts guy take the order wrong? The old part counter joke of "Hold the phone up so I can see the part better" kind of describes the frustration of trying to order over the phone.

Seattle Packard should do better in regards to Customer service, and communication. However, I think your refund is proof that they he was trying to be as honest and fair with you as he could.

Just my 2cents worth of useless blather.

I've bought many parts from David Moe over the years, and he has always been very accommodating and fair with me. One time I bought a bare antenna switch from David at a swap meet, only to discover later it was the for a 55/56 instead of a 51-54. So emailed him and he mailed me the correct one. Never asked for the other one back or gave me any hassle with it. I have also sent many other people to David when they needed small parts like trim or knobs and he has always been good and fair with them as well.

As said before, this is David's side line, so he sometimes make take a couple of days to return emails.

Not every vendor is going to make everyone happy every time, and there will be of course times when someone is displeased one way or another. But in general everyone I have ever referred to David has been happy with the parts they have purchased from him.