Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Home away from home
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In any correspondence be sure to indicate 4 wheel DRUM brakes. NO disk.
55 and 56 front are 1-1/8 wheel cyl. 55 and 56 rear cyl range from 1" to 1-1/16." For ease of communicatio just use 1-1/8 front and a plain 1" rear. 1/16" is negligable.
Posted on: 2014/11/2 14:21
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Forum Ambassador
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I looked at the photos of the unit and instructions for installing the CP3100r. Don't know why some companies are so reluctant to give dimensions. I would guess the unit is approx 4-5 inches square plus the length of a master which would place it in the neighborhood of BTV length.. Price wise, not sure it would save much over an electroboost. By the time you buy a master cyl plus whatever is needed for the brake and power hydraulic lines it will be fairly close.
I like how the first line in the instructions is the obligatory CYA statement of "the system is intended for off road use only". The install doesn't sound too terrible but it is general so they really don't give much detail. Don't remember what fitting the Bendix pump uses but hopefully adapters are readily available to convert from Bendix port out and supply the needed original style steering port plus supply the AN-6 style the unit requires. Another thing is they specifically say power steering fluid and not ATF. That shouldn't be too much a problem other than bleeding all the old existing Packard ATF out of the steering mechanism. The rod clevis they supply is the typical hole thru the GM arm type so something will have to be found or adapted for the Packard pedal attachment. It does appear to be physically smaller than a vacuum setup so definitely worth looking into but not sure it will be much better, cheaper or easier than the electroboost.
Posted on: 2014/11/2 16:30
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Howard
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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HH56.
U indicate the double diaaghram power unit u're using now causes extremely sensitive brakes. Is it possible to move the current dual diaghram powerunit and mc to the old BTV space that is now setting empty and therefore retain the oem stock 56 brake pedal. LEt me put it another way: If your current set up is so sensitive theen it mite very well lend itself to the 1:1 stock pedal ratio????? If it happens to be too long then a single line mc should be a good bit shorter.
Posted on: 2014/11/2 19:19
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Forum Ambassador
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Keith, I would be very reluctant to use 1:1 because of the possible loss of boost issue. Even at 3:1, running at slow speed with no vacuum as a test the brakes were marginal and took a distance. Granted, I wasn't standing on them but it was still not something I would want to take a chance on.
Posted on: 2014/11/2 20:15
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Howard
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Howard- Thanks for the diagrams. The email received from CP sounds promising. The unit appears to be apx the same size as the BTV. Overall length with master cylinder is supposed to be 16-16.5". The width is 4.5" with a 2" accumulator making overall width 6.5" with widest point being at 2 and 7PM positions.. The unit can be mounted at any angle- even upside down for clearance.
The email recommends a 1 1/8" master cylinder bore rather than the 1" I suggested since the smaller bore may make the unit too touchy since the boost is purportedly 100-200% greater than the BTV. There was a unit listed on eBay today for $498.75 and a Wilwood master cylinder w 1 1/8 bore and remote reservoir was listed at $64.99. The email asserts that the 1-1 ratio is not a concern due to the accumulator. I will check on the pressure needed and whether the current Power steering unit can be adapted to operate both. I will ask specific info on stopping ability w 1-1 ratio if engine or hydraulic pressure loss occurs. In a way I assume we have a similar problem with the BTV coupled with the inherent concern with a single line master cylinder. A bit tied up this week but I will try to get answers and keep all posted. Thanks to all for the support info. Stay well RJR
Posted on: 2014/11/3 1:15
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Forum Ambassador
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Sounds interesting and will await more details. One other thing that I think needs research or more info is the total length.
If that 16" figure is accurate then depending on exactly where or how the unit sits, there may be an issue. The BTV is laid out essentially in a straight line with master directly in line with the pedal. If planning on using the same space and mounting plate, if the hydro is laid out the same way I believe it will be too long for the space. The steering column and box sits directly in front of the roughly 12" BTV unit with maybe an inch or so clearance.
Posted on: 2014/11/3 10:20
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Howard
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Home away from home
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yes. Most interesting.
As for the length of the GM unit keep in mind that the OEM BTV has less than 1/8" FRAME clearence at the forward most point of the BTV mc. Somewhere a few years ago i posted a pic of the BTV fitted to a 56 Exec with fender removed that shows how close the BTV mc sets to the frame. IIRC the frame has an indention in it to accomodate the BTV. So if the GM unit is longer that mite present another obstacle to overcome.
Posted on: 2014/11/3 10:36
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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I spoke to the CP rep today. Long story short- it is not going to work. His initial assessment and sizing were quickly revised when I directed him to the Forum and diagrams. His unit is 16- 16.5".... Without the rod which would cause interference with the frame. He was a bit taken back by the diagram and the 1-1 arrangement. He didn't think the pump would work...and the master cylinder has to be level ....etc, etc.
Pretty much a waste of time. I will keep looking. By the way- the unit does not afford several pumps before putting you into the ditch. You would be trying to stop with a conventional brake attached to the original pedal. Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up...but this is a bust.
Posted on: 2014/11/3 19:26
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Re: 1955 Caribbean brake question
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Sorry to hear that. Your disappointment is understandable. I am feeling like all would be better served if the final resolution used over the counter, readily available parts with million mile proven track records.
Seems there are many blogs on the web of vac to hd retro and some seem to show a HIGHER pedal ratio and some say a pump upgrade is required and some use the factory vac boost pedal assm and the original pump. I have also found there are different accumulators(gold,silver,blue) with differing pressures and pass car,3/4 ton, 1 ton models with different boosts. Too many variables and the fact that even with moving the unit up and pedal down slightly the best pedal ratio to be achieved is 2 to 1 it seems unlikely to be an answer to all concerns.
Posted on: 2014/11/4 15:24
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