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Quote:

The way I see it, if a coach builder like Henney builds a body by hand as they did (including the professional coaches), then they can be nothing other than coach built. I do not believe the definition states that only a few must be made in order for that status to be valid. Often even modifications, such as those sometimes done by Derham, where considered to be coach built so surely a fully hand-made body would be!

On the cracks, my 1952 Henney-Packard had several but were apparently easy to fix. The cylinders were sleeved and the valves got new seats. I didn't totally understand how this would fix them since they must have extended farther into the block but perhaps these were more superficial than those in your block. In any event, there were no problems after the repair.

The reason I'm fuzzy on whether the 53-4 Henney 8 pass vehicles are coachbuilt or not is that I might consider them just low production vehicles. Magna-Steyer or a similar firm built the Saab convertibles,
Audi Convertibles and Pinin Farina (?) built the Cadillac Allante bodies. Are these production vehicles or ecoachbuilt for a future Concours?? Sunfire, Cavalier etc etc convertibles built by American Sunroof ??

Where do you draw the line between built by hand and "production"?? The Henney 8 pass 53-54 used tooling to stamp out the large roof panel, then it was attached to the body not by robots but by hand, just like at the Briggs plant so are both Henney and Briggs built car coachbuilt or neither? Are Cadillac series 75 and 86 8 pass cars production or coachbuilt??

I'm in a quandry.

It is a conundrum.

One way to look at it might be if Packard promoted the model or had photos in a catalog the customer could select and get substantially the identical car delivered then it is low production. If there were no similar cars offered or nothing but conceptual renderings & sketches or the customer requested a design built to specific features and worked closely with a builder to modify a car to have those features then it would be coachbuilt.

By that criteria the limo you are working on would be coachbuilt since I don't believe Packard offered a limo or model like that for sale at the time while the 53-4 models -- no matter the assembler -- would be low production because they did offer limos and LWB cars in various publications.

The Henney built funeral cars are special purpose -- but other Henney cars are a gray area since they are essentially modified factory cars and extensively hand built to specific customer requested designs. Some models might have been jointly promoted by Packard but I doubt most were something the average customer could walk in a Packard dealership to buy -- except maybe the limos -- rather than going thru specialty channels.

Fred, I don't have a handy definition but two links and a photo to animate the discussion.

-> link 1 (coachbuilt.com about Henney)

-> link 2 (wikipedia about coachbuilder)


ZIL Moscow


image source: automanas.tv3.lt

My original uncertainty was whether the supposed production of 4 1952 limousines like mine are the last coachbuilt Packards. Without question ours is coachbuilt, the uncertainty is whether the '53-'54 8 pass cars are coachbuilt or low production. Also are the '53 Formal Sedans by Derham coachbuilt or just modifications. As Derham did not "build" any part of the coach (body) but just modified the rear window (with wood??) as on earlier cars what differentiates their work from a local "customizer" except their proud heritage. The addition of a partition was done by firms other than Derham who put them in taxicabs, certainly not a coachbuilder.

So are there many restored 53-54 Henny limousine or executive sedans around?

Not like this one,
lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/5675612345.html

Today it was off to downtown industrial Newark to see Lou, a lifelong welder deluxe supreme. He's got experience welding cracked blocks and while he's can't give a guarantee he'll do his best.

Monday morning update: Over the weekend I finished sandblasting all of the front end/front brake parts, backing plates and drums will be painted a low-gloss chassis black along with front springs. Most everything else will be clear coated with a satin low gloss to maintain the "new" finish.

Upper and lower inner threaded shaft bushings will be black phosphate coated, closest to oil quench hardening original finish.

I've picked all new brake components, our deluxe kit, plus the gaskets fort the grease retainer plates: also front wheel bearings and seals.

Chassis is due back tomorrow, welding of stretch beams and painting are first priority.

So far all of the work is what Dan and I call "Negative Work", taking things apart. After the chassis is painted starts the "Positive Work". HOORAY!!!

fredkanter Quote:

I couldn't agree more!

Craig

This thread reminds me of a discussion I saw years ago in an old car publication.

An old time custom car designer was interviewed about the custom body business in the twenties and thirties.

He said many of the bodies were made in batches of 50 or 100 and warehoused until needed. Then they were painted, trimmed, and installed on chassis. This was only done when a firm order was received.

Most of these cars were ordered by dealers for stock, and sold off the showroom floor.

A few were ordered by the customer and painted and trimmed to their specifications.

Only 1 or 2 orders out of every 100 were special order, or 'custom built' in the sense we think of today. But all these bodies were built to the same standards by the same workmen using the same materials and all were considered 'custom bodies'.

I should think all the vehicles made by Henney would be considered custom jobs.