Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

West, I'm not trying to argue with you, but I'm curious what you are basing this information on?

No problem. You can argue. And I might change my opinion.

Seven-passenger touring cars just don't bring anywhere near the price of phaetons, unless the buyer is new to the hobby and doesn't know the differences in the body styles. I'm not trying to dis the tourings. They are great driving cars. Styling-wise, they fall short, though.

I still wouldn't mind having it in my garage though!!!!!

West, help me,

White wall tires, chopped windshield, squared-off back bucket.
What else makes the phaeton so much more desirable?

Here's a phaeton that sold for $352K and a Touring that sold for $550K.

What the fender?

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Based on THOSE two examples, it would sure reinforce BDC's claim that $107K was a deal!!!

As I said from the beginning, it's my opinion.

The difference in desirability is for the same reason a club sedan is more desirable than a seven-passenger sedan.

Joe, and Packard Newbie
You're trying to compare apples and oranges in regard to pricing of the Twelve cylinder cars to the Super Eights.

Also, you're comparing a perfect, perfect, perfect, fresh restoration to an older restoration.

And... you're comparing 1933 values to 1934, when 1934s are slightly more desirable.

The best description of why the phaeton is preferred over the touring cars comes down to one word: proportions. Years ago in an interview with Ray Dietrich in a Cars & Parts magazine, he explained that for cars up to the mid-'30's before the engine moved forward over the front axle, the radiator shell on the front axle plane visually defined the start of the body. At the rear axle plane, in order to provide adequate passenger space, the rear of the body mass extended beyond as far rearward as was necessary. This practice was carried over from the earliest automotive design where maximum passenger space for chassis length was a primary design objective.

Moving into the 1920's, styling appeal became of greater importance and maximum passenger space no longer such a primary consideration. For sedans, the close-coupled club sedan comes into being by custom coachbuilders. The major difference is the rear of the body is moved forward closer to the rear axle plane. The reduction in rear legroom or folding seat space the trade-off. As the body mass ends closer to or at the rear axle plane, it results in more visually pleasing proportions, being more similar to those at the front.

The same design trends were being applied to open touring cars. Driving the trend was the change in preference to closed sedan bodies throughout the decade as those became more affordable. Conversely, the open touring cars were rapidly diminishing in popularity. Custom coachbuilder, who catered to small niche markets, applied the shortened rear body to the touring car, reducing passenger capacity from seven to four. What had been generally considered a utilitarian configuration, the touring car transformed into the stylish, sporty phaeton. The addition of a second cowl with folding windshield added to the look while providing tonneau passengers with a modicum of wind protection, something completely lacking in the touring car.

As luxury cars such as Packard were about more than simple utility, body styles with more visually appealing proportions command greater interest and higher prices now.

Steve

West & Steve,

Thanks for the info and explanations. I have to preface whatever I say about anything-Packard, with the fact that I know very little, and my comment(s) are of an observatory nature at best. Most of you guys have forgotten more than I'll ever know about these cars. Also, West - I inadvertently clicked on your project blog for your 180, and must say wow, it is a most interesting and helpful how-to guide for anyone following in your footsteps!! I will have to deal with king pins eventually and was dreading tackling the task. After reading your step-by-step (with the cool B&W pics) I will take on the job with much less trepidation. Thanks AND, very nice car, BTW. Chris

Amen to Chris' comment. And Steve, you demonstrated why collectors now and wealthy car buyers back then value the phaeton over the touring.

At first glance to me, they look pretty much alike. And that's why I pulled the images from Model Info (ok, 1 year off and a bigger engine, but it was year to year, and engine to engine) with the only difference being the body designation.

I wasn't focused at all on the price. I imagine 12s cost more than 8s. Since they looked so much alike, I wondered what other differences there are.

And I wasn't trying disprove, West. If you search for '34 Packard 12 Phaeton and then Touring, the cars shown above are the very first that come up in the search. Both Sotheby's by chance. I Did think it was weird that the touring sold for so much more than the phaeton, but I wasn't looking for that. They both looked good, but now I know the touring was in better condition than the phaeton. ...And that there's less legroom in the phaeton.
:-}

Thanks, West and Steve. One learns something everyday here.