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Reposting the above in case someone with an underseat heater missed it.

I took many photos of a 1941 160 recently and thought I might be the same but the only photo I had of the under-seat heater was taken from above of the inlet which just had the open fan with no grilll whatsoever. If there should have been one, it was gone and I don't recall anything on the outlets but I also didn't look at it specifically.

This is the underseat heater I bought from John Ulrich.

HH56 pointed me to two photos in the Packard Photo Archive, 1940, page 16-#158 and page 17-#164, repeated here. These show the grille in LWB cars.

Also the partial instructions from Service Letter Vol 13 No 2, Jan 15, 1939.

Howard suggested this, which is great input.
"I can't speak much to prewar plumbing but on the postwar cars the underseat heater cores were placed in series with the main heater rather than have any Y or T connections.

From the head or block outlet to the main heater, out of the main to the underseat and out of the underseat to the water pump return. On the Clipper bodies the hoses were clamped to the body floor at the U shaped transverse reinforcing channels rather than to the frame. Hoses that had to cross to the other side were routed under the trans thru the opening in the X member and clamped to the plate on the bottom of the opening. Maybe conventional bodies did the same??"

The heater in 5-passenger cars like mine will probably be mostly positioned under the rear seat, with room for a switch. If the motor isn't restorable (the fan does spin), there's a new (after market) 1940 Chev 6v 1-direction (but reversible) motor from chevsofthe40s.com that's has the same measurements.

As parts come back, I'll post photos. But Marilyn would have had fun with that backseat LWB heater.

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Unless there is some part of the case missing, am thinking from the looks of the core placements you are working with the Dual Stream heater that was usually positioned under the front seat rather than the one located in the middle of the rear floor.

In the Dual Streams the air is pulled in from the center by the fan and then forced out the two cores to the front and back seat areas. Can't say how the air flow goes in the one located in the rear floor but would assume somehow both return and outlet are located in the same grill. To me it would seem unlikely the fan pulls air thru the cores openly from outside air under the car and then expels it into the interior hence the question of maybe something is missing if that is the floor heater.

No idea when Dual Streams were introduced but here are photos of the Clipper unit and install. I do not have a 40 accessory folder but there is a photo of the conventional body install in the 41 accessory folder. The photo is of very poor quality so didn't want to post that one but you can download it from the site if you want to view the install. Heater was mounted on the drivers side in Clippers and the passenger side on conventional bodies. The floor heater illustration is out of the 39 accessory folder and I believe is the one you are looking for. No idea what the underside of that one looks like.

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Once again, my ignorance prevails. I bought an underseat heater, but not a REAR underseat heater. Okay.

I mainly want to get some heat to the back seat, so I would get some heat putting it under the front seat. I could look at installing it wholly under the rear seat and set it sideways to get heat left and right.

This heater has to mount inside the car, above the floor pan except for the in/out tubes, but the true rear underseat heater must mount UNDER the floor pan?

I honestly don't know the options you would have for mounting that heater under the rear seat. Normally the underseat heaters go under the front seat for hiding and protection and in the dual streams, blow both ways. With the 51 and later underseats air was forced only toward the rear. No idea if the 40 had underseat heaters and if not, do the seats have enough room for the box or are there are any provisions for holes for the tubes and motor or for mounting.

With going under the rear seat the question would be how the seat fits or attaches to the floor. In the Clippers there are supports running front to back which are part of the seat frame spaced about 8-10 inches apart which rest directly on a shelf like forming of the floor metal. There would be absolutely no room for the wide box between the supports. Based on the grill size I believe the rear in-seat heater on the Clipper cars was about 6" square and positioned in wide areas built into the seat and of a totally different design. Air enters at one side of the seat, is circulated thru the open space at the front and forced out another grill by the heater fan. No idea if the heater was made prewar or able to fit in conventional bodies.

Without knowing what the seat construction is like on your 40, I sort of expect the conventional bodies are similar and there is very limited space. Had there been any space or way to get air flow past the base, I would have thought there would have been no need to raise the seat to provide a path for return air flow for the AC units. At the very least, should you manage to install it under the rear seat expect you would need to add some slots or openings in the seat or frame for air flow. Don posted a photo of a 41 with what appears to be some kind of heater under it but from the looks of the opening I am not sure that is factory.

Here is what the Dual Stream looks like in the Clipper and photos of the in-seat heater used in limos etc. Have not seen the seat heater to know if any mods are made to the chassis or seat but believe it fits in the open space between the "shelf" and positioned in the flat square space in the wire frame visible as the third distinct area in from the side. Don's photo of the 41 with AC shows what appears to be some kind of heater under that seat but no idea which heater. I kind of question the opening as being factory since the core is showing but if it is maybe missing a grille and just showing the years of neglect. Don't believe he mentioned whether any other openings were seen.

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MAIN HEATER: I finally have all the parts back to replace my current heater and have a restored backup. I acquired three 2-speed heater/2-speed defroster paddle switches and one rotary version in the process, and these are being repaired with new resistors. The bi-directional motor was rebuilt with a new harness.

UNDERSEAT HEATER: Restoration of this heater is proceeding well thanks to Howard (HH56). He found in the 1940 Databook that the underseat heater, the Dual Stream, was introduced in 1940 and was positioned under the front passenger seat because the battery is under the driver's. On Clippers and subsequent years, the Dual Stream was under the driver's seat. The single direction motor was rebuilt. I found an aftermarket 6V 2-speed switch for it.

The heater cores for both heaters have been cleaned, repaired and pressure tested. When everything is done, I'll take photos before final assembly and post some installation photos. I also reproduced the Packard Dual Stream label.

STARTER CIRCUIT: Last Friday after buying some 5/8 heater hose at the local NAPA store, when I pushed the starter button, nothing happened. I mean, not a sound and no movement on the ammeter. This had happened to me a year ago and it was because one of the wires on the starter button was loose. Back then I managed to reach under and feel my way to getting it touching again enough to start the car. When I got home, I pulled the center dash off to expose it and attached those wires very securely. Last Friday was a hot day and nothing I could feel was loose. I called AAA. Because of rush hour and because I needed a flatbed, the dispatcher estimated over an hour wait. I therefore proceeded to pull the center dash while waiting.

Essentially this involved pulling out the ashtray, the knobs and nuts for the radio control box, and loosening the nuts holding the center plastic plate accessible by reaching in through the ashtray hole. I pushed the radio back and up out of the way to inspect the switch. The wires were secure. I'm working with a 'new' harness from Harnesses Unlimited, so nothing is frayed.

I opened the bonnet, and checked and wiggled wires to the starter, voltage regulator and coil, and like many before me chalked it up to either a faulty ignition switch or the old original style coil on a hot day after running many errands.

Then I realized, it wasn't the coil or the ignition switch because when I pressed the starter button without the ignition on, nothing happened. And there was no click from the starter solenoid trying, but unable, to engage.

God bless the AAA arriving in 30 minutes and darn you Duchess. She started just as the driver arrived. He followed me home to be sure I made it.

I decided it must be that my original starter button is going on the fritz after 430K miles. (The flackmaster is sending a replacement.)

But I'm wondering now, if the solenoid is going bad, might it not make any sound at all? Any time it ever went out before, it at least clicked.

I made sure the button wires were secure and reassembled the dash. Something is obviously loose or going out. But I wondered if it's possible for the starter solenoid to not make Any noise at all when power is applied to it.

TUNE UP: I took the Duchess to a professional shop that specializes primarily in '50-'70s cars for a brake adjustment (perfect) and a tune-up. (Kanter kit).

It was raining when they finished and the top was down, so they couldn't take it for a test drive.

It was almost 5, so I put up the top and drove home, but on the way, as soon as I hit 45 mph, the engine started skipping. I'm taking it back tomorrow morning, but do you think the timing should be Advanced or Retarded?

I set the idle at 375 rpm when I got home and the exhaust hums so smooth.

DUAL STREAM HEATER: With Howard's help I made some labels for the Dual Stream under-the-seat heater. If you have a dual stream heater, make a $5 donation to packardinfo.com, PM me with an address, and I'll mail you one.

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QUESTION ON TUNE-UP: The professional shop initially set the dwell at 27 degrees. Idle was at 550 RPM. I asked that they set idle at 375 RPM.

They set the intial timing at 3.5 degrees BTDC. They set the idle mixture at HC 500, CO 3.0, A/F 13.6

At my request the set the idle speed slower at 475 RPM, cruise mixture is now HC 340-400, CO 1.30.

They said that setting the idle speed lower causes HC and CO to go up and idle won't stay smooth.

QUESTION 1: Are they imposing a new spec in doing the tune up where emissions take precedence?

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Driving home from the shop, the engine starts missing at around 40-45 MPH in standard 3rd gear.

QUESTION 2: Should they advance or retard the timing?

(In the meantime, when I got home, I set the idle screw at 375 RPM and the exhaust purrs like a kitten, just a smooth purr.)

MORE QUESTIONS:

Looking at attached photos, It does not appear that they changed the timing from when I brought it in? How are they setting the timing to 3.5 BTDC if not my rotating the distributor?

Please help me understand this.

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On the no start issue, it could be the button but I believe we have established your starter circuit wiring is not exactly stock 1940 so can't say for sure if the starter safety circuit commonly used with the 356 engine and Autolite solenoids is in place and could be contributing to the issue. In a stock loom and 40 setup there would be an extra set of contacts in the regulator which provide the ground for the starter switch to pass along to the solenoid. If those contacts were not making a good connection there would be no ground to the solenoid so it could not pull in. If that part of the circuit is bypassed then the problem would be elsewhere. Do you have a 4th terminal on the regulator labeled T and is there a wire connected to it? If so the safety circuit may be connected and acting up.

On the basics pertaining only to the Autolite solenoids, they actually have a relay inside the solenoid enclosure to connect the power and do the work of starting to bring in the solenoid. The solenoid has two coils and the heavy pull in coil which does the major work also needs a good solid current path thru the starter motor in order to have a ground to energize and bring the plunger in to start the process.

If the safety circuit is OK and relay is getting a signal but relay is not making good contact thru its points that could cause a problem because there would be no power to the solenoid coils at all. If the relay is working but brushes in the starter motor have some kind of intermittent issue, that could prevent the pull in coil from energizing and even if the solenoid hold coil is getting power, it is not strong enough to pull in the plunger by itself.