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Willing to take another look for the Utica motor # in the underside location? My '56 Caribbean was a very late car, almost the very end, and had a traditional Utica # in the traditional location.

Dave

Sure. Next time it's in the air I'll take another look. The numbers at the front are very hard to read. Almost like someone tried to grind them off.

This business of stamping new numbers on frames or engines is popular with the registration authorities here. They made me stamp new VIN numbers on the frames of two of my motorcycles because the originals were indistinct under the powder coating on the steering head, then they made me remove the originals even though in their opinion they were illegible!

Do you know if these engines were painted before or after the Utica numbers were stamped? The new number on this engine is highly visible but quite messy. Looks like it was done as an afterthought. The others are so indistinct that they may have been ground, then painted over to make them disappear.

I think I spotted the location you described on the rear of the block, but no sign of numbers there. A number there would not be accepted by our registration authorities. The whole block has been repainted red, presumably when the car was restored. There may be a number under the paint there, though. When I get the chance, I'll look again and let you know.

Can you hazard a guess when my car was built? Must also have been quite late in 1956. I believe it was registered here around October that year, so would have left the US at least two months before. Do you know when the last Clippers were manufactured?

I have not seen any other 1956 Packards here. There were apparently three Clippers imported that year. I know that one was scrapped after being cut down to a utility (pickup). No Caribbeans a far as I know. Am wondering whether Packard was told to stamp the engine number somewhere visible? If so, it didn't help.

Cheers

Brian

Very apparent from what I've seen that the numbers were stamped before the motor was painted. I've forgotten if the build slips or shipping orders with the build date are available for your model and if so, from where, but someone will likely come along with that info.

Hello Dave

Interesting what you say about the painting. That suggests that they knew at Utica in 1956 which car each engine was destined for (including export cars?). Do we know if engine painting was done at Utica (would assume so), or back at the plant?

Was just browsing through some of the earlier correspondence on this site about the numbering of the Utica motors. I gather all the V8s were built there in 1956.

The 16th April, 1956 memo from the factory quoted by BH says:

"2. Export Engines starting with 55th Series have XH stamped on block between V just back of the water pump. Same location that Conners stamp engine numbers.

3. Utica Engine number that was stamped on right rear exhaust port flange is now stamped on the front of the block, same location as Conner uses."

I guess my Clipper was built soon after the date of that note. The note only mentions senior models and does not seem to correspond to the facts as we know them now, specifically in relation to your late 56 Caribbean.

You mentioned that your engine has the Utica engine number stamped next to the rear RH exhaust port. Is it also stamped up behind the water pump?

That memo also suggests that engines destined for export cars (maybe senior models only?) had XH stamped up near the water pump. Can't see anything like that on mine, although there might be the remains of it next to the VN, which I think someone has tried to grind off.

Very curious. Suggests that the written records are unreliable. Maybe there was just widespread confusion at the time.

I will check for a number at the rear of my block when I get a chance to access it safely.

Brian

When I said the numbers were stamped before painting, I was specifically speaking of the Utica numbers, I don't have the same degree of certainty about the vehicle number stamped above the water pump as the motor number.

On my Caribbean the Utica number only appeared at the rear underside location. I also have a late 1956 Patrician motor, Utica number only at the rear underside location

I never really gave any thought as to where the engines were painted, I just always assumed they were done at Utica, but maybe not....? Surely they were painted before accessories (starters, generators, distributors, fans, carburetors and fuel pumps, etc.) Were installed.

Hello Dave

That's interesting.

I guess you can tell from the numbers that your engines were produced in late 1956. Even though they are stamped at the back, do they contain the VN or can they somehow be linked to that?

It appears from that factory note that as early as 1955, Packard knew which engines were going into export cars. I wonder if that's correct though, given the other anomalies? There's certainly no evidence of it in my car. In fact, you probably noticed that nobody ever bothered to stamp the trim or paint code on my VN plate. I just happen to know what they were. Guess you've been wrestling with these sorts of questions for a long time!

Do you have the car which goes with your Patrician engine?

Where was your Caribbean manufactured? In South Bend?

Brian

Yes, both my Caribbean and spare Patrician motors also have the vehicle number stamped as a motor number on the flat by the oil filler tube.

No, I don't have the car that the Patrician motor is from.

All 1956 Packards were built in Detroit. The only Packards built in South Bend were those based on Studebaker vehicles, specifically the 1957 and 1958 Packards.

I don't know what all the features were that differentiated an export motor, I believe one was the cylinder head shim to reduce the compression ratio for the lower octane fuels in the export market.

Dave

That's interesting. I thought car production stopped at the Packard plant in Detroit in June, 1956. My Clipper may have been built there - up to whatever stage they built export cars then. Where were the Packards built later in 1956 produced (ie post the merger with Studebaker)? Showing my ignorance!

I had assumed that June 1956 was the end of production for 1956 models.

At 9.5:1 the 352 engines maybe didn't need shims to lower the compression, although I seem to recall that the compression ratio on the V8 Caribbeans was 10:1. High for those days. Do you know if any V8 Caribbeans came to Australia new? They would have been hideously expensive here. Gas in Australia was quite good then, though. We had a thing called "Super" which was generally ok with higher compression/performance engines. Maybe equivalent to 95 octane unleaded now. But 10:1 would have been marginal with that. Probably needed to retard the ignition timing.

So your engines have the VN stamped at top/front of the block. I see why you're interested to know whether the Utica stamping is also at the rear on mine.

Will definitely check. I'm curious now, too!

Brian

Dave can answer in more accurate detail but in rough terms, Packard bought Studebaker in late 1953 or 1954 (as I understand it, it was not a merger but a purchase) so, of course, 1956 Packards were built in Detroit until the end of the 1956 model run. After that for 1957 and 1958, the Packards were customized Studebakers built in South Bend, Indiana.

You're correct, the last 1956 Packards were produced in the Packard Detroit plant in June, 1956.

The combine (though technically not a merger) with Studebaker occurred in 1954 (or was it late 1953?).

Several refiners had 101 octane gas available in that era. One particular brand I remember was Atlantic-Richfield's ARCO Purple.

As I recall, a bit more than a dozen 1956 Caribbean convertibles were built for export and a list of their vehicle numbers and destinations is available. I recall one to Canada, several to Saudi Arabia, perhaps Iran, one to France, one or more to Mexico. If you want the specifics I can dig that info out for you, it's a in a back issue of the CNB.

CORRECTION. 1955/56 final assembly in the ex-Briggs plant in Detroit that Packard had leased from Chrysler, the so-called Conner Ave plant.