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I did see that there was a set of contacts inside the coil in a couple of manuals I have. One of the manuals says there are 2 sets of contacts.
As I had mentioned, OD is working, just wouldn't kick out but found and repaired that issue. Still do not recall ever hearing that solenoid in the past when setting the choke.
I suppose I could remove it and look inside to see which winding is heavier, but hate taking things apart that are working!
Remain confused on how the "Pull-In" coil gets actuated. Any ideas?

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In the earlier models it is pulled in by the kickdown switch and relay only. In the later models there is an additional switch that can activate the relay and bring in the solenoid.

Referencing the wiring diagrams in post #8, in the early 39 drawing, one of the upper terminals on the kickdown switch is grounded, the other goes to the S terminal of the relay. The relay is a typical horn type relay where B is power supplied from the battery terminal of the starter solenoid and also feeds one side of the coil in the relay. H is the output, and S is the control and will need a ground to bring in the relay. In the later 39 diagram the kickdown switch is the same but there is an additional reverse switch also going to the S relay terminal. The later diagram also shows the relay being slightly different with the coil being powered separately from the ign switch to ensure the OD solenoid cannot be activated when ign is off.

When the kickdown switch is activated it brings in the relay and the H terminal puts out 6v. The 6v goes to the solenoid SW terminal, thru the normally closed contact inside to the pull in coil. The hold coil would also be connected to the SW terminal. The other side of pull in and hold coils are grounded. When the solenoid gets power, plunger retracts to force the OD out of engagement and solenoid is mechanically configured so that when the plunger reaches near the end it hits the small pin which pushes against the pull in coil contact to open it and disconnect the pull in coil. This leaves only the hold coil getting power to keep the plunger retracted.

In the later drawing when the car is placed into reverse, the reverse switch does the same thing by also activating the relay. This was done to ensure the OD is not engaged when going into reverse.

The part I have not figured out is the ign cut out portion of the circuit. Ground needs to come from the solenoid, thru the kickdown sw, and then go away quickly when OD kicksdown is over so engine does not stall. With not knowing the configuration of the kickdown switch inner terminals and not knowing how and when ground is done with the second solenoid contact it leaves questions on how the ground pulse to the ign coil to short it out for a brief period is handled.

Here is how I BELIEVE the internal solenoid wiring is done but am unsure if the IGN contacts are normnally open as shown or normally closed.

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  R6 solenoid.jpg (19.70 KB)

The kickdown switch is a simple double pole, single throw switch, all poles normally open.

I believe what happens is that upon actuation of the kickdown switch, the solenoid pulls in , quickly opening a set of contacts in the solenoid which is part of the ignition circuit, co only temporarily shorting the coil out to reduce torque on the transmission, allowing the pawl to withdraw

I still haven't figured out how the pull in coil gets actuated. Car must be rolling over about 30 MPH, so there has to be a governor, internally perhaps? At any speed, any gear over 30, lift up on accelerator and the OD kicks in

There does not appear to be any type of electrical governor on the R6. I believe the R6 overdrive engagement is completely mechanical and determined entirely by the centrifugal clutch which grabs onto an internal mechanism when enough speed causes the clutch components to move into a position to engage or trigger something.

Unlike the later full electric OD units such as the R9 and R11 which uses the solenoid to push a pawl into position to block the sun gear and engage overdrive, the R6 solenoid has absolutely nothing to do with engagement. It is only used when already in OD to pull something out (maybe a pawl that the centrifugal clutch moved in) to drop out of OD or, in case of the reverse switch, pull something already moved in that should not be which will allow the OD to stay disengaged.

R9s had a problem with electrical issues energizing the solenoid and putting a unit in OD when it should not be so they added an electrical switch to totally cut power when in reverse. Maybe the R6 is prone to something mechanical doing the same thing so the reverse switch was added to make sure the solenoid pulled out whatever places the unit in OD.

An R6 overdrive is internally governed by flyweights that turn with the mainshaft. That means that at 25 or so the overdrive becomes available to use by merely lifting your foot off the gas. As your speed drops below approx. 20 the flyweights let go and the car can return to direct. No electricity is involved.

As I mentioned in post #2, any time you put your foot down hard the kickdown switch will close and you will hear the solenoid fire. If driving in OD the unit will kickdown as the pawl is withdrawn by the solenoid. If you are below OD speed or just setting the choke the solenoid will still fire but it makes no difference whatsoever.

There is only one power wire to the R6 solenoid and the change from pull-in coil to hold-in coil is handled by a pair of contacts within. The other wire is connected to ever so briefly ground the ignition coil. That little stumble relieves torque on the driveline long enough to complete the downshift. The trans will stay out of overdrive until you lift your foot off the gas long enough to complete an normal upshift. Clicking of the solenoid is normal. Find something else to worry about.

There is two coils, hence 2 wires and the solenoid chassis grounded. One is the hold in , the other is the pull in. SO, still not comprehending how the pull in solenoid fires

It is really quite simple. Referring to the drawing in post 22, If you have two wires connecting to the solenoid one wire is connected to the SW terminal and is power to both coils. The coils are connected to the case at the other end which supplies the ground.

The solenoid pulls in when the relay operated by the kickdown sw or reverse switch closes and sends power to the solenoid. Solenoid is only used when you need to forcibly disengage OD.

The other wire on the solenoid IGN terminal has nothing to do with either coil and only provides the ground to the ign cutout circuit.

Howard, my question is either too simple or a dumb one.
Driving along, let up on throttle to engage OD, HOW and what kicks it in and what activates the hold in coil?

Thanks for your patience
John

Ross has provided a good explanation in post 25 on how it is engaged using purely mechanical means by the centrifugal clutch or as Ross calls it, flyweights. When the calibrated speed is reached, the weights move outward enough and via their linkage, trigger mechanical components which lock the sun gear and place the unit in OD when you let off on the accelerator for a moment.

When you want to forcibly come out of OD the kickdown switch activates the relay and solenoid which apparently pulls the pawl out of the sun gear and you are back in conventional drive. That is the only purpose of the solenoid.

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  cent clutch.jpg (100.73 KB)

I understand all that, but what’s the purpose of the hold-in solenoid and how is it energized?