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Topic: Ultramatic Rebuild

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Ernie Vitucci

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#11

Home away from home

Good Morning...It's best to call MM on Monday morning and talk to them. Nice people, we spoke a good deal when we were working on our 1949 Deluxe after purchasing her and getting her ready for more or less regular use. Then you can ask all the necessary questions and know what to do. 317-736-6233 or 800-472-2573. Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 8/31 10:15

Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'

longjohn

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#12

Home away from home

Before you rebuild a transmission, I would offer a suggestion. The ultramatic in my 53 Cavalier would sometimes slip on low speed acceleration. I tried changing the fluid and cleaning the pan and valve bodies. I was also contemplating a rebuild but a mechanic/collector friend suggested that I try a transmission additive. He referred to such additives as "magic potions". His comment was that these don't always work but if they do, it can save you a lot of work and expense. I tried a transmission additive from the CD-2 brand. It worked like a champ. In fact, my ultramatic has never performed better. That was four years ago and I have never added any more but the tranny still performs as it should. Not saying that this will solve your particular problem but for about $7, what do you have to lose.

Posted on: 8/31 10:16

53 Cavalier

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#13

Home away from home

Quote:

Ross wrote:
The transmission is transmitting whatever torque the engine is producing. If there is a transmission problem it will be signaled by the engine suddenly gaining speed as the trans is not able to hold the engine's torque. If that is not what is happening, then you do not have a transmission problem.

For general information as this seems to come up so often, Ultramatics are not very fluid level sensitive. A quart of down will not be noticed.

Thanks Ross, it is a transmission problem and I had avoided saying the transmission was slipping as it doesn't happen all the time, which I would have thought it would. But maybe clutch disks are getting worn enough that they are just started to fail in the right conditions.

The engine does "race" momentarily and this is under load during acceleration and only when everything is well warmed up, like after an hour of driving. Let off a bit and it seems to catch and be fine. Maybe it's worn clutch disks, or maybe not enough pressure on the DD?

For the most part I'm not to inclined to figure out exactly what is going on, as I suspect the transmission has never been touched, but rather to rebuild my parts car's Ultramatic and put it in. At least I know what I'm dealing with if I have problems in the future.

Posted on: 8/31 10:27

53 Cavalier

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#14

Home away from home

Quote:

humanpotatohybrid wrote:
Quote:

53 Cavalier wrote:
1) It acts like it's starving for fluid, like it is low. Or that the governor and throttle valve are not working together they way they should. I'm not very knowledgeable about my Ultramatic...................yet!

I hope to not sound too rude but if you're not very knowledgeable on these then please don't try to explain what your issue is by predicting what is causing it. For the simple reason that your idea of the symptom of the "governor and throttle valve are not working together they way they should" may be very different from mine. If you are working on your own, sure, but when we are trying to diagnose your problem, a clear description of what you are experiencing would be appreciated.

Of course Ross is correct, if your clutches are slipping then you will have engine flare. Your HRC if before the direct shift point, and it's your DDC if after. If you are experiencing stumbling then that's an engine problem.

FYI, there's not much opportunity for air to get into the system as it is all pressurized. Maybe your screen is a bit clogged? But if so, I would predict you would only have a problem when the transmission is cold, since warm fluid flows more easily. You might also see the front pump take too long to prime, but I don't think this is what's happening.

Quote:

53 Cavalier wrote:
It could be that there are sticky rings, or piston. Maybe worn clutch plates. Maybe an leak in the system allowing air to get in. I have noticed at times a whirring sound similar to a power steering system that has air in it.

Is there any pattern to when this condition occurs? Does it follow the engine RPM or car speed? (i.e. if you rev the engine in converter drive, it might either follow the engine, or follow the car movement speed.) Aside from just the sound, are there any physical effects such as the engine stumbling or flaring?

One thing I've learned in life is that when somebody says "I hope to not sound too rude" they are about to be rude and that is there intention. So then I do what you could have done, which is go on to the next post.

Posted on: 8/31 10:39

packardbill

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#15

Quite a regular

If, ultimately, you determine a trans rebuild is necessary, I can confidently recommend Fatsco.net. Their service is great and they can reline your direct drive clutch disc. Their business IS transmission parts.

Posted on: 8/31 11:14

53 Cavalier

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#16

Home away from home

Quote:

longjohn wrote:
Before you rebuild a transmission, I would offer a suggestion. The ultramatic in my 53 Cavalier would sometimes slip on low speed acceleration. I tried changing the fluid and cleaning the pan and valve bodies. I was also contemplating a rebuild but a mechanic/collector friend suggested that I try a transmission additive. He referred to such additives as "magic potions". His comment was that these don't always work but if they do, it can save you a lot of work and expense. I tried a transmission additive from the CD-2 brand. It worked like a champ. In fact, my ultramatic has never performed better. That was four years ago and I have never added any more but the tranny still performs as it should. Not saying that this will solve your particular problem but for about $7, what do you have to lose.

Thanks for the suggestion! Generally not a believer in additives, but I don't think it would hurt to try! I did try Lucas transmission fix as an experiment, but it didn't "fix" it. Do you remember if it was specifically a transmission additive? Looking online and I can find Engine Stop Leak and an Oil Detergent by CD-2, but not a product specifically for transmissions.

Posted on: 8/31 11:20

53 Cavalier

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#17

Home away from home

Quote:

packardbill wrote:
If, ultimately, you determine a trans rebuild is necessary, I can confidently recommend Fatsco.net. Their service is great and they can reline your direct drive clutch disc. Their business IS transmission parts.

Perfect, I'll check them out!

Posted on: 8/31 11:26

humanpotatohybrid

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#18

Home away from home

Quote:

53 Cavalier wrote:
I do what you could have done, which is go on to the next post.

Don't worry, you won't hear any more "rude remarks" from me. Good luck.

Posted on: 8/31 11:49

53 Cavalier

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#19

Home away from home

Quote:

BigKev wrote:
Does it feel like the engine is stumbling/miss/bog when this happens?

If so it could be a carb/fuel issue.

I would get a stumble sometimes at/above 50mph. Turned out my ceramic fuel filter was not as clean as it appeared. A new filter and the problem disappeared.

I supposed at that speed I was consuming fuel roughly at or slightly more than it could be supplied through the filter and the carb bowl would start to run low. Then it would stumble, the rpm slowed then it caught up again and all was fine for a little bit.

After the new filter, that stopped.

Others have also reported issues similar to what you've reported when coils start to misbehave under load when hot.

Pretty sure it's not engine related, but know better than to discount anything when it comes to vehicles!

I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to the coil, had to replace my 1 year old NAPA coil this spring.

Just replaced my fuel filter and just rebuilt my fuel pump. Car has been running great.

It acts like the transmission is slipping, and maybe it is, but because it doesn't always do it it makes me wonder if it's not actually clutch disks or maybe a pressure problem. I would have thought that once the conditions were such that it started slipping, it would continue to do so. That is if it "slipped" once, then under a heavier load it would do it again. Maybe the transmission being 71 years old is part of the problem!

One of my issues with my car, which also applies to the transmission, is I know very little about it's mechanical history. Has the transmission ever been opened up, other than somebody gooping RTV on the pan to get it to seal? I drained it, including the torque converter, when I first got the car and there was very little debris in the pan, nothing to be concerned about. I think the best way to make sure my transmission is good to go is put a rebuild kit in it, or as I mentioned my parts car's transmission. After that I can be confident that any issues shouldn't be due to things such as worn clutch disks, but rather adjustments, of which they are not many on these transmissions. They are pretty simple as far as transmissions go.

Posted on: 8/31 12:42

longjohn

Re: Ultramatic Rebuild

#20

Home away from home

Re: Transmission additive. It was a transmission specific product and I'm pretty sure it was by CD-2 but it has been a few years and I may not remember correctly. Maybe it was a Lucas product.

Posted on: 9/1 15:29

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