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Pgh Ultramatic

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#91

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Gotta be stuck rings on #8. Pull it and check. Drop it out don't try to remove from above as the rings will snag on the wear groove.

You can wash the piston in gasoline or what have you to try to un gunk it, but really if it's that bad, I'd just do a ring job on the engine overall. Rings and honing are cheap for the benefit.

Submerge the whole piston in engine oil to prelubricate it, then stand it up to let the excess drain off, before reinstalling.

Posted on: 4/8 7:57

kevinpackard

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#92

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Pistons can't come out the bottom on the '51-'54 straight eights. The main bearing flanges are in the way. So out the top is the only option, which means we'll need to ream out that wear groove.

Trying very hard not to let the mission creep too far into a full rebuild. But for sure we'll at least pull #8 and see what's up. Maybe we'll end up doing the others as well but time and expense need to be accounted for here as well.

Posted on: 4/8 9:28

Ross

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#93

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Some mission creepage is better than others. Those engines love a new set of rings and even Packard opined it was better sooner than later. Old rings worn thin start to do the hula in their grooves. After a while of that they break up into pieces and not so long after that migrate out the top of the piston so as to pay a visit to the valves. This is common long-stroke engine disease that I have seen in Packards Buicks, Chrysler products etc of that era. You are already buying a whole gasket set so pull those pistons out and have a look at the top rings and grooves especially. Plastigage the rod bearings before you yank them out. Look forward and poke the timing chain with a screwdriver and see its play. Or rock the crank back and forth and see how far you have to turn before the camshaft moves. Thunderbolts run cooler and stronger with a new chain.

I fully understand that you don't want to go that far but you have already undertaken quite a bit of the arduous work. For another 8 hours you can make the engine hold for another 40K miles or so.

A nice check on your valve work is pour a little thinner around them after assy and see if it stays put.

Posted on: 4/8 20:19

kevinpackard

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#94

Home away from home

Quote:

Ross wrote:
Some mission creepage is better than others. Those engines love a new set of rings and even Packard opined it was better sooner than later. Old rings worn thin start to do the hula in their grooves. After a while of that they break up into pieces and not so long after that migrate out the top of the piston so as to pay a visit to the valves. This is common long-stroke engine disease that I have seen in Packards Buicks, Chrysler products etc of that era. You are already buying a whole gasket set so pull those pistons out and have a look at the top rings and grooves especially. Plastigage the rod bearings before you yank them out. Look forward and poke the timing chain with a screwdriver and see its play. Or rock the crank back and forth and see how far you have to turn before the camshaft moves. Thunderbolts run cooler and stronger with a new chain.

I fully understand that you don't want to go that far but you have already undertaken quite a bit of the arduous work. For another 8 hours you can make the engine hold for another 40K miles or so.

A nice check on your valve work is pour a little thinner around them after assy and see if it stays put.

Yeah, you are right Ross. With the head off and valves out, we might as well pull the pistons and re-ring everything. Any tips to dealing with the front pistons with the frame crossmember in the way? And any particular ring set we should get?

I'll need to pick up a few more tools as well. Cylinder lip reamer, cylinder hone, and ring compressor. I think I have most everything else to do the job. I'll need these tools anyways to rebuild Rusty's engine, and I'll need them for when I eventually do a refresh on my Panama.

Posted on: 4/8 22:54

Pgh Ultramatic

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#95

Home away from home

Get the rings from Egge. Grant rings.

Edit: here is a comparison, Grant vs. NOS. V8 engine, but IIRC the rings were virtually identical one year prior on the straight eights.

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=276019

Posted on: 4/8 23:00

Ross

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#96

Home away from home

Yes, I agree on the Grants. They have great oil control.

Posted on: 4/9 6:43

kevinpackard

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#97

Home away from home

I'm assuming these are Grant rings? They don't say the manufacturer, but they are the only ones Egge offers. Do I need to check the bore size with an indicator to see what size rings? I'm assuming with the wear we are no longer going to be using 000 size.

Thoughts on removing the lip on the cylinders? I keep reading conflicting opinions on doing it or not.

Posted on: 4/9 9:59

Pgh Ultramatic

Re: Morticus' Packard 200 Deluxe Touring Edition

#98

Home away from home

Quote:

kevinpackard wrote:
I'm assuming these are Grant rings? They don't say the manufacturer, but they are the only ones Egge offers. Do I need to check the bore size with an indicator to see what size rings? I'm assuming with the wear we are no longer going to be using 000 size.

Thoughts on removing the lip on the cylinders? I keep reading conflicting opinions on doing it or not.

First question, please call and ask. In particular, the 10 over could be the same part as none over. That was the case for Packard OEM 320 V8, not sure what else, tho IDK if that's standard practice now.

For measuring, buy a set of expanding bore gauges. Available at HF. Note that they will generally read 1 or 2 thou low even with careful usage. You lock the measurement and then measure the gauge itself with a mic or caliper.

The lip, if you can get the pistons out then who cares. As for reassembly, if you are using rectangular stones then you will wear it down to hone the cylinder properly anyway.

Posted on: 4/9 11:19

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