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At the 1999 centennial meet there was a car supposedly depicting what the 57 Packard would have looked like. It was in a sad shape as it was done in a hurry in order to get it to the meet. Does anyone know what happened to it.
Did it get scrapped, or did the builder continue with it or ??????????????

It was called "Black Bess II". It was based on a 1956 Pat chassis. I had a short email and phone exchange with the builder who is in PA. It was not received well at the 1999 Centenial and I do not know its current state. Here are some construction photos prior to 1999.

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Wonder if that was the same fellow who had the chassis at Warren in 2008 There is picture of chasis in the photo section he was from Pa as I remember

The chassis guy and the Black Bess gent are two different fellows. There are Packard folks who would tell you everything wrong with your car and they probably ran off at the mouth with the Black Bess builder. You get the same types at car cruises who want to tell you about every flaw they perceive on your car.

I spoke with the fella that had the rolling 1957 prototype chassis at Warren back in 2008. It appeared to be a little rough around the edges, but constructed from photocopies of photos of the original. I questioned the orientation of some design elements, but it showed that Packard was working on some interesting technology as well as styling.

He was from Punxsutawney, PA and is the same fella who built the Black Bess replica. Prior to the Centennial, the Black Bess project was featured, as a work in progress, in his Letter to the Editor in Cars & Parts magazine, asking for more info on the original car. I saw the finished product at Perrysburg one year (perhaps after the Centennial), and it was received with mixed reviews. It, too, was a little rough around the edges, but you have to keep in mind that the original Black Bess was only a mule. The interior, however, had more of a Studebaker flavor - reminded me of the interior of a couple Avanti-inspired Studebaker prototypes of the '60s that I'd seen up-close.

I believe this fella's ultimate goal is to construct an actual running and driveable 1957 car as Packard intended. I wish him best of luck and look forward to seeing the finished product.

Yup, there sure are a lot of people who will tell you what's wrong with your car. On the other hand, there are a lot of people out there who can flap their lip about all their plans. Yet, how many of them actually took on and ever completed a project of this magnitude?

I'm with Brian on this. Had not seen or remember hearing of this car until the mention here. Anyone who can take some odd pieces and photographs but has the skill to do what he appears to have done --even in the rough stage-- deserves kudos and support.

I can hear the purists complaining also but can't figure why. Believe the only original's demise is well documented. Unless he also has some very deep pockets and time galore, doubt he's going to be going into production & building and selling them as authentic. Even if he did, rough as these photos show, it already looked better than some of the fake modern cars with a Packard name we've been blessed with. And to anyone who bought as authentic, then there is a saying for that too: "A fool and his money is soon parted".

Hope he turned a deaf ear to the static and did finish - I'd sure like to see it.

Howard -

He did finish Black Bess II in time for the Centennial, but the naysayers didn't appear sway him from further efforts. I ssupect money and, then, time are greater obstacles for him.

While I didn't see any overt quarreling with him over the rolling chassis on display at Warren, he told me a few people took issue with it, but he had a file folder full of what clearly appeared to be behind-the-scenes factory pix to back him up. (They were NOT photoshopped like images of the 1965 V12 prototypes that were published by one club.) IIRC, he told me that this chassis was only a first attempt - not what will actually go under the '57 car.

Meanwhile I would direct interested parties to couple pics of that chassis in our Photo Gallery, submitted by Packard53:

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=2026&cid=64

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=2025

Both are titled as a "1957 Prototype Torsion Level Demonstration Frame", but there's a bit more to the chassis than the next-gen T-L suspension with hydraulic leveling. One thing you can't see is a heavy version of a rack and pinion steering. A conventional 56th series engine and Twin Ultra was installed, temporarily.

Personally, I find this fella's efforts with Black bess II and the '57 chassis to be in the same spirit of three prototypes that Packard never built, but were commissioned some years ago by Carl Schneider. These cars were featured in in the April, 2002 issue of Collectible Automobile magazine, and have since come to be known as the Parisian (aka - Pininfarina, a fastback, the Pacifica (a roadster), and the El Paso (a station wagon).

In contrast, Mr. Schneider appears to have been embraced by at least one club and was guest speaker at the Perrysburg Invitational meet in 2008. Those cars were more finished in appearance, but Mr. Schneider probably had a lot bigger budget to work with and paid someone else to do the work.

I thought the '57s were supposed to have IRS?

While the topic of independent rear suspension (IRS) has often come up in the course of discussion as regards what might have been next for Torsion-Level suspension, I can't find anything in print that Packard actually had that under development. I didn't personally go through the file folder that the fabricator of that rolling chassis had on hand at Warren. However, I do have a photocopy of some typewritten notes from 1955 by Advanced Engineering (sort of a to-do list), but among the many things in the works for '57, IRS isn't among them. I also recall the term "transaxle" coming up in discussion, but that paper only mentions that the Twin Ultra was undergoing refinements.

Now, I've seen a 1958 Motor Trend article on Bill Allison's vision for a next-gen torsion bar suspension, which had provisions for either solid rear axle or IRS. However, I believe most of the work on the chasssis for the proposed 1957 Packards had been accomplished during the 1955 calendar year. In view of a DVD with an interview with Allison and footage of torsion bar suspension being evaluated on the streets of Detroit, I have wonder if Allison's vision had more to do with an adaptation to American Motors products, which was actually done for Ford - in anticipation of their move to unitized body construction (perhaps with some hope for IRS).

GM came out with IRS a couple of years later, on the '60 Corvair and '61 Tempest, but those platforms really aren't comparable to a Packard. Jaguar introduced IRS for '61, but the first use of IRS that I can think of on a regular production American vehicle with front engine and RWD on a full frame would be '63 Vette.