Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

While I cant add anything about the fluid change interval on the steering box, I can't agree with Keith on the his statement about Tranny Fluid or Anti-Freeze lasting basically forever. Those both should be changed at regular intervals. Any automotive fluid that is subject to repeated heat cycles is going to break down over time. Hence why the fluids start to change color.

Why they make not be under the same heat and stress as engine oil, they still break down over time. While old Anti-freeze may not cause your car to overheat directly, it does start to loose it's ability to protect it from freezing at the same temp as when it was new. Probably not an issue if you live in the Southern US. But also the corrosion inhibiters in the Anti-Freeze break down over time.

Packard recommend that the Ultramatic fluid be changed ever 20,000 miles. I dont have a problem spending $20 on ATF every 20k. Same with Anti-Freeze. Thats the cheap stuff compared to a rusted out radiator, or a transmission rebuild.

If anyone else has other opinions on this, I would like to hear them.

Speaking as a retired chemist let me clarify what has been said about the effect of heat, use and/or age on the characteristics of ethylene glycol-based antifreeze. Neither age nor use nor temperature experience change the molecular structure of EG and hence they don't change the compound's freezing and boiling points, nor that of its mixtures with water. However the same can't be said for the additive packages which protect against corrosion and ethylene glycol in the absence of these additives can be quite corrosive to certain metals, these additives are actually consumed in the process of performing their tasks. Thus it's foolish and potentially expensive down the road to not change it at least every other year. While the same analogy doesn't hold for lubricants like gear oil, simple examination doesn't reveal the presence of condensed water vapor and particulates and again it's my recommendation that they be changed at regular intervals, though perhaps not the same intervals as were recommended for cars in every day service. I'd never return a used lubricant to service unless in the rare case that it was just changed previously and I had collected it in a clean container in order to effect some repair or service. The cost is so trivial compared to the consequences of damage. If we can't afford a couple of gallons of antifreeze and a couple of pints of gear oil, perhaps this isn't the hobby for us.

With the possible exception of some prewar cars, nearly all post war radiators are rarely any good for more than 20 years at the max regardless of care given. They thend to "rot", solder seams loosen, tanks corrode and get thin as well as the vanes.

The radiators can be "rodded" out but look close at the bill u get from the radiator shop. They nearly always say "weak core" as a disclaimer. If u have them recored then the disclaimer reads "weak tank(s)'.

MY point is that the radiator is only good for so long just like a piston ring or clutch or hose or anything else is only good for so long.

SO! What does a new or custom built radiator cost???? Ruff calculations:
NEW radiator = $150 to $500 depending??? If u change the coolant every 2 years or 20K miles at $20 a pop then in 20 years and say 160k miles u're looking at say $180. Might as well just wait and use the money on a new $300 radiator in 20 years. U'll need the new radiator anyway.

RECENTLY my 88 ranger among others i've owned over the years and 100k++ miles and engine rebuilds showed no signs of significant rust build up in the water jackets.
YES, i have seen some engines (none of mine) that had a lot of rust build up in water jackets. Those engines were usualy of unknown origin or had sat for a very long time outside in in poor conditions.

One last note on this issue from me: Check the coolant EVERY fall with a hydrometer!!!!! Top off or correct with new coolant (or good used) as needed.

Owen Dyneto wrote: " However the same can't be said for the additive packages which protect against corrosion and ethylene glycol in the absence of these additives can be quite corrosive to certain metals, these additives are actually consumed in the process of performing their tasks"

Glad u brought that up. I've always wondered but never really knew if the so-called "corrosion inhibitors" were exactly that or do they actually make the coolant corrosion PROOF.

The additive packages are no doubt proprietary with individual antifreeze formulators and there's no reason to think that all brands have chemically identical packages, but they're formulated to be acceptably the functional equivalent or nearly so. I use the word "package" because there are different metals which require protection from corrosion, cast iron, brass, copper, aluminum and tin/lead (solder) at a minumum and there is no wonder molecule that protects them all. The packages I looked at some years back contained a chemical compound like tolytriazole for copper and brass protection, and inorganic silicates for cast iron, plus other ingredients. Some of these substances (but not the ethylene glycol itself) have a transitory life.

I'd say that they "control" corrosion to acceptable levels but I doubt anyone in the business would ever say they make the solution "corrsion-proof". Dem's strong words.

BTW, my 56 Caribbean still has it's original radiator, clean as a whistle, and to my knowledge as never been serviced. So did my 34 Packard until a few years ago when I decided to recore it based on it's physical appearance, not its performance.