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I believe the last car to use the BTV was Mercedes-Benz in 1962. Hudson and/or Nash also used it.

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O_D, I was going by what the owner told us when asked about the second "accelerator pedal"; or, maybe I misunderstood what he was saying. Thanks for your research to clarify the situation.

(o{I}o)

Speaking with someone else about the P-A system and trying to jog our collective memories, perhaps the system was developed by Hispano-Suiza? And perhaps the rotating member wasn't on the driveshaft but on a transmission jackshaft. I'll have to do a bit more research to clear up the details. If there's any further interest in this system, I'll update the post when I learn more.

OWEN

The Pierce system was invented and I believe patented by Hispano. Rolls Royce licensed it and used it mechanical over mechanical in the 20's or early 30's, then by the 50's or earlier had mechanical over hydraulic. Last used in 65/66 on the last of the Silver Clouds. I gave owned all of these models so I know first hand. FYI with the new models in 67 they licensed the Citroen common brake and suspension system.

To the best of my memory the BTV wsa original on Lincoln 54-60, Mercury 54-58, Edsel 58, Chev 54-58,Pontiac 54-58,
(lds 54-58, Buick 57, Cad 56&58, Nash 54-57, Hudson 54-57, and Mercedes 56-62???. The spectacular 300SL used it and was raced by amateurs at up top 150mph. I seriously doubt there was a design flaw or it would have shown up back then.

ON the subject of heat. While many makes had the BTV mounted high on the firewall adn away form the manifold, makes other than Packard had them mounted low by the manifold. I have worked on many Packard V8's, never saw evidence of heat damage, never found one hot when I touched it, some had underspray on them which would have burned off if too hot. Heat does not seem to be a problem.

Why are V8 owners reporting more failures?? Maybe because they are more modern with the V8/twin Ul-Traumatic adn more fun to drive. Here's a question, if teh V8'sare inherently bad design, why didn't this show up in the 50's/60's/70's when lots of us and our customers were driving them daily?
My guess is that it's the incorrect gasket/compensator valve problem, nothing else has changed.


Someone mentioned possibly reformulated DOT 3 fluid, if so there would have been massive failures and not only BTV's

ERIC

I have seen thousands of collector cars pre-66 still with single Master cyls, a small % have duals, usually readily availble conversion kits for Mustang/Falcon etc adn 55/57 Chevy. Go to Hershey with 1000+ cars on display. Yes some trailer queens, but the majoprity are driven with single M/Cyls as a dual would have points deducted. They are not fools, I'm sure they maintain their vehicles and count on the orig brakes.

Sudden failure is from a broken hose, low fluid caused by a rusty line etc. A well maintained car will not suffer that very often.

AS to your refusal to answer my question as to where my valves pictured are made. Ina prev post with a photo, you told the person that his valve was made in China or Mexico just by looking at the photo. NOw you reufse my request saying that having a dual master is what's important. Telling the source by looking at it is akin to magic, but we all know the magicians skill is in diverting the onlookers attention. Yes, I do realize that a dual is safer, so are air bags, padded dashes, side door beams etc etc. Now thatI've admitted that, tell all of us a the source of my photos #2 and #3. You, I , and all the rest of the forum members are dying to know.


Fred Kanter
Friend of the turth

Fred and Eric, I would appreciate it if you guys take your conversations to PM and spare the rest of us. This constant back and forth arguing is getting a little old. I realize this is an open and public forum, but your debates tend to dominate. You both have much of offer to the site, and I have learned from your posts, but I hate to see all this good knowledge and experience covered-up and spoiled by your strong personal comments debate. Please.

(o{I}o)

JW, I agree, I'm tired of his crap as well.

Fred, I already answered your question, but judging from your spelling ability your reading comprehension lacks as well. Let me repeat it for you:

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For the record, I never stated that I could tell where it was made, Chris stated this:

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To which I replied sarcastically:

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I never ONCE stated for a FACT that I could tell from LOOKING AT A PICTURE where a part came from. You are putting words in my mouth to suit your agenda.

And also, if a single line master cylinder is as safe as you say, and you're such a proponent of them, why do you sell dual master conversion kits?

Thank you Eric. Your recount of the sequence of events and claims as they appear in this thread are accurate.

BTV Topic list.

More BTV discussion threads to ponder (as i add them sporaticaly) :

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... orum=3&post_id=52953#forumpost52953

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0

chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/218459/

THere is at least 2 dozen more. Probably that many over at the AACA website too.

Lets add them as we run across them. Maybe start seperate dedicated thread or index for the BTV threads.

Isn't this FUN!!!!!
I believe the BTV controversy has finaly outstripped the V8 oil pump discussions by now. Oil pump issues were remedied with the Oldsmobile oil Pump Conversion. The BTV is NEXT!!

Is this thread about Brake problems, or a contest on who can piss the furthest?

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No pissing contest, just trying to talk some common sense into those who lack it.