Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Good comments about old gas. The chances of it being OK are near zero. Gas is cheap so just replace it. Getting the old gas out may be tough however because the drain plug in the bottom of the tank may be stuck and may break the tank if a big wrench torque is applied. I have sometimes been able to drain old gas by removing a fuel fitting or a hose down low on the car.

My first collector car was a 1952 Hudson Hornet that had been sitting for many years. It was a low mileage original with a bad engine. I overhauled the engine and all the accessories like a precious museum piece. Dual carburetors and fuel pump were rebuilt 100% like new. When the time came I put gas in the original "dry" unmolested tank and started the car. It ran like a watch for 30 seconds or so and then stopped. I started it again and never got it to run very long. I finally sold it to a car collector after showing him that it would start but not run for long.

He later told me what the problem was. The gas tank had been pretty full when the car was parked. Over many years the gas evaporated leaving its tar-like residue in the tank. The new gas I put in dissolved the gunk and running it deposited it into the newly rebuilt carburetors and fuel pump. After the tank was removed and cleaned and the carbs and fuel pump overhauled a second time the car was good to go.

Lesson learned. Always put a filter in the fuel line coming from the old fuel tank. If the filter plugs up you may have to drop the gas tank and have it cleaned. Many radiator shops can clean it and test for leaks. Good luck.

Such Great Tips from you guys. You can't beat expeirence. You guys are just great.
From what I understand, the last time the car was running around on a daily routine was in the 1970's. Since then been in storage. All I know is lights and lights on dash work, engine did not turn over. Engine filled with oil and Since this, been In dry storage for a few years.

Great tip about the Gas, I would never have known that. What is the correct process in cleaning Gas Tank?

With regards to the Radiator, Perhaps there is a special liquid to flush it out? Should I just drain out water, and check if water clean or rusty brown( which I guess will be the case), cover engine with cloth, put water hose down Radiator top, keep running water until it runs out clean at bottom. Check condition of Radiator Hose, and replace if need be. Does that sound about right? Of course when engine does run, I can check for leaks. Should I flush with just normal tap water or some special cleaning liquid?

The Engine oil , what stroke oil is best on these old engines? After all tests just hope it starts and Engine not seized. Does seized just mean rusted up or engine dirty inside?

Gary, I would reverse flush the radiator; that is run water into it from the bottom and let it come out the top hose connection. I have done this by wrapping the garden hose with duct tape until it is thick enough to fit securely into the bottom hose connection. With the cap on run the water until it is clear. Doing it this way will help to dislodge stuff that has collected on the top of the tubes. If you like you can divert the water by connecting a hose to the top so water will run away from the engine. You get the idea.

(o{I}o)

Yes I surely do get the idea. Sounds just perfect way to me. A big thankyou.
Can a abrasive blasting be done to clean Gas Tank? When cleaned, does the paint color must be black? Or can you be a little different and paint silver color? Same question for Rad?
Been said that the 359 Engine color is Bronze, but I have herd that in actual fact true color is more Redish in color ?

359 engine color is distinctly bronze, not red. Radiator paint (black) is a low-solids paint to avoid build-up of an insulating layer which would inhibit heat transfer.

No doubt when checking the 359 Engine, the Piston Rings will need to be checked, is this the right procedure?

1) Remove the piston rings from the piston with an appropriate expander tool. Place the tool ends between the ring gap and slowly squeeze the handle until the ring expands. Slip it off the piston. Remove all rings, the expansion ring, compression rings and oil ring and place them in a tub filled with engine solvent. Carburetor cleaner or lacquer thinner will work instead of solvent. Piston Kleen has been developed specifically to remove built-up carbon on rings and pistons. Let it soak for 24 hours.

2
Remove the pistons from the solvent bath. Use a paint scraper to remove built-up carbon on the top of the piston. Be careful not to gouge the piston metal. Use a brass-bristle wire brush to finish cleaning the top of the piston and sides. Use a long-bristle parts brush to clean the underside of the piston skirt and the piston pin bore.

3
Place the piston in a vice, top side up. Use rags between the piston skirt and vice jaws. Read the directions on the use of the piston-groove cleaning tool. Pick out the correct size bit that will cut the lands grooves in the piston---some have metric measurements, while others have standard sizes.

4
Encircle the piston with the groove cleaning tool and set the bit in the groove. Adjust the tension knob. Rotate the tool 360 degrees around the piston top. Examine the groove after a few rotations---the groove, or landing, should end up shiny and free of any carbon. Cut each ring groove and change the bit diameter if required to do so for the oil ring groove. Re-clean the grooves with solvent and a brush to remove all residue.

5
Collapse one ring and place it inside the cylinder bore. Place a feeler-gauge blade between the ring ends. Measure the end gap of each ring this way. Make sure all ring-end gaps meet required specifications; refer to the owner's manual. Use a flat file to shave away excess metal on the end of a ring if its gap measure is too narrow, according to specifications.

6
Reinstall the rings back onto the pistons. Use the expansion tool to open the rings up and slide them down over the piston skirt. Start with the oil ring first; then install the other two rings.

Before installing the pistons back into the cylinders, check them with an outside micrometer for out-of-rounds. Refer to the owner's repair manual for the correct measurement.

Tuning up your Engine, again thanks to EHow.com may be useful to Members.

The first thing I like to do is to clean as much varnish as I can from the fuel system. I use Gumout Carburetor & Fuel Injector Cleaner in the tank. This cleans the gas tank & fuel lines leading to and including the Carburetor or Fuel Injectors. I plan it so that I burn at least one treated tank full before performing the rest of the tune-up.

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After cleaning the fuel system, replace the fuel filter, PCV & air filters. I prefer using Fram filters, personally.
Since I have the breather open, at this point, I will usually spray clean the throttle & choke plates of the carburetor or throttle body with Gumout carburetor cleaner. And, spray clean the MAF sensor with CRC (Mass Air Flow sensor) cleaner. I will also closely inspect all vacuum lines, fuel lines, brake lines, electrical wiring, belts and hoses for wear, cracks, heat damage, rodent chews, and replace or repair as necessary. Go ahead and top off the brake fluid, power steering and windshield washer fluids, while you're at it. Also, use a hydrometer to check the strength of your anti-freeze. If it is dirty or weak, go ahead and flush the coolant system, refilling with at least a 50/50 mix. I like Prestone Anti-Freeze.

3
Another important step of any tune-up is to remove carbon build-up, especially if the vehicle is typically only driven short distances at low speeds. Carbon build up can cause burnt valves, pre-mature wear on valve seals, oil burning, loss of compression/power and hot spots on piston heads. A simple, non invasive method to accomplish this is by steam cleaning. With the engine at operating temperature, open the air cleaner to access the intake. Grab a 16-20 ounce bottle of water and remove the cap and hold your thumb over the opening. Increase engine speed to about 2,000 RPM, by moving the throttle linkage. Slowly, and I mean slowly, drizzle water into the intake. The engine will start to bog down. Stop the water and maintain the idle speed, until it picks back up. Repeat this process until the bottle is empty. Then, after closing the breather, take the vehicle out on the road and drive it a few miles. Hit the highway, if at all possible. This will insure that all the moisture and loosened carbon deposits are removed. You could also treat your gas and engine oil with zMax or Lucas micro-lubricants to remove and prevent carbon buildup.

4
Now is a good time to inspect the Battery terminals. You can dissolve that crusty build up with a little bit of water and baking soda. Be careful not to allow any to enter the vent caps or to short out both terminals together. Removing the Negative first, and reconnecting it last, dry the terminals and battery posts with a shop rag, then clean them using a battery terminal brush. After tightening, Spray coat the terminals with Permatex Battery Protector & Sealer, or apply petroleum jelly, to protect them from the elements.

5
Next, I'll move on to the ignition system. I'll start by replacing the spark plugs & plug wires. I prefer Bosch Platinum+2 plugs and Accel plug wire sets. If you are having trouble with a seized plug or two, follow the link I placed in the resource area to a related article. I will inspect and replace the Distributor Cap and Rotor, (and, for you classic car owners, replace the points and set the dwell). Some newer vehicles have a 'Distributor-less Ignition' system which has no Cap or Rotor and eliminates maintenance.

6
As far as the ignition timing goes; unless you have a Classic, it is computer controlled. When replacing a Distributor these days, all you need do is line up the marks and lock it down. For the Classics, knowing how to use a timing light is essential. It is just a matter of disconnecting and plugging the vacuum advance, setting the idle to the required RPM at operating temperature, loosening the hold down clamp and gently rotating the distributor until the strobe indicates that the spark is at the proper point (usually advanced 8-10 degrees before TDC), then tighten the clamp.

7
While I am on the subject of 'Classics,' since the greater majority are carbureted, you may as well adjust your air/fuel ratio at this point. You might have more than one mixture screw and may have to drill and remove a factory installed cap to access them. Once you have that out of the way, and with the engine running at operating temperature, slowly turn each screw clockwise (one at a time) until the engine just starts to idle rough. Then, back the screw out half a turn. This is referred to as a 'Lean Best' setting, and will give you the best MPG under most operating conditions.

8

Fram Filters - all three of these are 2-C and fit the same engine.
Change the oil & oil filter. Again, I prefer Fram filters. The Engine's Instructor I had, when I went to Lincoln Tech. (Automotive Tech. School) in the mid 80's, taught me to up-size my oil filter whenever there was room enough in the engine compartment. Just be sure to match the bottom plate. For example, all three filters in the photo have a 2-C plate. They all have the same thread and seal, meaning they are interchangeable. But, look at the difference in length!
The point is NOT to extend your regular oil change intervals, but rather to keep it cleaner with a larger filter element. An added benefit is the transfer of more heat through the larger canister surface. This helps slightly reduce thermal breakdown.
I also prefer to use Castrol Syntec (Synthetic Oil) in my vehicles. You should use the proper weight/viscosity for optimum protection in your climate. Refer to your Owner's manual. And, as I mentioned above, treating your oil with zMax or Lucas micro-lubricants help to keep your engine clean of carbon buildup.

Gary in many years of monkeying around with old cars I have only run across one with mouse nests in the radiator! This was a DeSoto flathead six that drove me crazy until I figured it out. The engine ran fine at idle but overheated as soon as you drove it. Everything seemed OK but close inspection revealed some foreign matter in the rad, like brown paper towels all shredded up. I pulled out what I could see and though perhaps someone had stuffed a paper towel in the fill hole. Eventually I took the rad off and cleaned it out, I was surprised to find enough shredded paper towels to make a ball nearly as big as a football.

My theory is that someone drained the rad for winter storage and left the cap off as a reminder to refill it before driving the car. But the mice got in and made a nest out of old paper towels.

Sometimes valves get stuck when an engine sits for a long time. Straight eight Packards seem to be prone to this. If it happens, the cylinders with the stuck valves will have no compression. The only cure is to take the head off and free up the valves.

Do not worry about rings, valves, and bearings at this point. My policy is always to change things as little as possible until I carefully inspect and diagnose the engine. If you start tearing things up and changing things you don't know where you are or why things aren't working. I start with the assumption it ran when parked and work from there.

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This is excellent advice and applicable to all aspects of restoration. Conversely, the stuff you're finding on ehow.com isn't such great advice. If I were you, I'd keep talking to people involved in the hobby, read some books and forget searching google for answers.

Agree with the previous. Try to get it running with a minimum of fuss, change the oil first, make sure coolant is up, check for spark, get a clean fuel source, and go. Only then figure out what is wrong and correct it.

eHow is full of it... Fram filters? Cut one apart and look at it, they have typically been among the worst. I like Wix and Hastings. Castrol Syntec? No ZDDP (zinc), so you could wipe out a cam. I use Valvoline Blue Diesel 15w40, and Shell Rotella Diesel is good too, they still have some zinc in them for our old engines. Be careful of advice given out on websites like eHow. Alot of it is very dubious.