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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#11
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tbirdman
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Quote:

How can an engine with such lowsy compression readings and expected valve problems be so silent and smooth. I guess the nine mains and Packard high standards have to do with it.


My 32 engine ran fine. The reason for my rebuild was it was smoking and using 3 quarts of oil in a 50 mile trip. It was getting too expensive to run with the oil consumption plus the people behind me were having to use their windshield wipers all of the time.

For all the things wrong with the engine if it hadn't started to smoke and use oil, I would nver had done a rebuild.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 0:10
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#12
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Matt snape
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Damn - just wrote a whole post and lost it!

So this time it will be short...

Are pressures in psi?

Three turns - did you turn it by hand? I have always used the starter.

0 psi in #1 but highest pressure in #2... no overheating, water loss or water in oil or oil in water? Must be valve problem or venting to atmosphere between block and head.

I would re test compression using different equipment to be sure then if still the same problem pull the head off. Inspect for problems/leaks. Check valve timing (may be out a notch or two - common enough in rebuilt engines) and valve lift for each cylinder, which will test your faulty lifter theory. Worst case may be bent valve/s cause by incorrect fitment or overzealous maching of top deck/block or head during rebuild - although this should be noisy and also affect more than 1 cylinder. Could be damaged piston / missing rings on #1 but let's not think about that just yet...

At first I thought it most likely a fuel problem also. Have had/heard similar problems caused by porous fuel float which sinks when left sitting. This can flood the engine or cause rich running. Also when carby heats up air/vapour in float can expand, expelling fuel and then float starts to work better...

Just my 2 cents worth and good luck with what sounds like a fabulous restoration project.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 7:07
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#13
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Mike
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Those are pretty crazy all over the place compression readings.

I hate ever pulling a head, but it WOULD give you eyes directly on the situation. I'd lean away from timing being off a notch or two, engine should run the same all the time...pretty terrible.

The miss in the no 1 cylinder is a new symptom to us here, i was under the impression that it ran great all cylinders once warmed up. If there really is no compression there, that's a horse of a different color.

Are there different length Packard valves? I'm not well versed in the subject. Maybe someone installed a valve that physically fit during the rebuild but isn't the correct length and so it's not opening the intake or leaving the exhaust open?

You could also take the valve covers off and check to see that all of them are moving.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 8:48
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#14
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Owen_Dyneto
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A bit of a long shot, but if the engine had a valve grind recently, perhaps whoever did it forgot to re-establish the clearance for the hydraulic lifters? When you grind the valve seats and faces, the valve stem drops closer to the lifters, and the clearance of 0.030 to 0.070 must be maintained for proper lifter operation. Failure to do this could result in some (all?) valves not closing completely. It's all covered very nicely in the shop manual, the the gauge block is readily available.

And an observation, 6 psi fuel pressure is out of range and too high.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 9:11
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#15
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Victor
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Thanks everybody for your thoughts. I will get to it next week. I do believe it is the lifters, which don't allow the valves to seat properly... I will look for the manual and see how can I get them back to their proper specs, just as Owen_Dyneto suggests.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 10:18
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#16
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Owen_Dyneto
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OK. If in fact you determine that a valve job was done and the mechanic failed to verify the hydraulic lifter clearances, you'll have to remove the cylinder head and all the valves, remove the hydraulic lifter body (don't intermix them or the valves), insert the gauge block into the lifter body, put the cam in the down position, and grind the end of the valve stems until the correct clearance is obtained. Just follow the service manual.

If in fact you determine this is the problem, I'd say the "reputable shop, now closed" that did the engine rebuild was not qualified for the job.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 10:29
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#17
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Victor
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Yes, I guess the shop did not do a good job. In fact the shop I know did the engine is mostly the mechanical shop that checks on tolerances and rectifies things, whatever the name is. I have no idea who the mechanic that assembled the engine was. In any case, I am hoping it will be something that can solved without much problem.

Thanks,
Victor

Posted on: 2011/1/14 12:52
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#18
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Mike
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It's still odd that the engine seems to run OK when warm if it's a lifter clearance issue. Can't wait to see the outcome of this one, it's an odd situation for sure.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 12:55
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#19
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Owen_Dyneto
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It's still odd that the engine seems to run OK when warm if it's a lifter clearance issue.

I fully agree and still lean to some sort of choke or fuel problem. BUT, maybe "running OK when warm" doesn't mean what we take it to mean.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 13:10
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Re: 1941 One Eighty - curious engine problem
#20
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Victor
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I understand you are all puzzled. I am too. When I say "running OK when warm", it means just that, silky smooth, silent engine, powerful on which only by hearing the exhaust note you could detect the miss that lead us to find that cylinder no 1 was not working. I have about 5 Packards (1933, 37, 40, 41, 50, and 56, so it is really 6 though the '37 is a basket case project) among a bunch or other old cars. I probably have to say that only my '37 V12 RR Phantom III has an engine as smooth as this one, though the 327 c.i. in my Super Deluxe convertible is also very smooth. The 356, even with it's problem, once running fine sounds much better and performs better that my 1940 Cadillac.

Anyhow, as mentioned, I will keep you posted on progress.

Posted on: 2011/1/14 13:28
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