Packard Forum Index » Modification Discussion

"I have experienced better cold start, smoother cold engine performance during warm-up and slightly better fuel economy with the multi-spark than I did with the Pertronix unit installed and the engine just seems to perform better, generally. "

I would SUSPECT (not know, just suspect), that in a packard engine without it's aftermarket performance parts support that chevies, et. al. have, where everyone is running pretty much a bone stock setup, that there is no real difference between a petronix, msd, jacobs, and well tuned stock ignition systems.

I'd pay the dyno bill for you to run your car with both setups and to use an engine analyzer to prove that it's not running smoother or making any more power, if i'm wrong.

It's like when you air your tires up from 32psi to 35. Now the car seems to handle better and ride better. Scientifically, we can't tell, we're not that sensitive. And if you can't measure it, then we can't be sure it's really true.

The pertronix setup isn't that it makes anything run better, just more consistently in the good range instead of points and condensors that wear and change slightly on you. Tt's that you never ever have to touch it, and it comes with directions that anyone could install, and for a decent price. No more points condensors, etc. Granted, the msd and others eliminate that maintenance also, but they cost more, and it's a bulk setup that can be hard to hide, for what i'm betting doesn't REALLY gain you anything.

Lastly, most testing shows that multi-spark and even plain HEI only really shows a difference under higher rpms (like 5k+) and higher cylinder pressures than we run on packards, unless someone here is running on race gas.

For what most of us here have, (stock setup eights and v8s) i'd lay just about any money that you can't prove an MSD or what have you works better over a pertronix that's setup correctly. (make sure on pos ground cars you have the leads hooked up on the coil correctly to get the best spark. Same with points.)

Would you say that? That you'd match a 100, 500, or 1000 bet that your msd or jacobs can't run any better in a stock packard motor than a pertronix? Because i would bet that money on how well my pertronix ran in my 288, and will run in my 327. And i only spent $75 and there's no bulky boxes or extra wires save one to the coil.

It's not that the MSD or jacobs isn't any good, it's just my opinion that it's overkill for the average packard, costing more with no real, measurable differences.

Now, if you do switch to multispark and it clears up some issues in the bottom end and mid range under not so heavy throttle, i'd be looking into fuel delivery or maybe rings and find out why one spark isn't working like it did when the car was new and ran that well out of the dealer (and you can bet it did run super smooth and efficiently) instead of using the multispark to kind of cover anotehr minor tuning issue.


EDIT: After reading this, i saw it came off as kind of annoyed or angry. Definitely not the case, and it's all opinion. Not looking to insult anyone.

Just saying that when it comes to spending money or recommendations, we should stick to what we can measure, not what "seems" or "feels" better to us, as that can be misleading.

First, Jack and PackardV8, I bought the Jacobs unit presently in the 55 Pat online from Summit Racing about four years ago. If I recall correctly the price, including Jacobs coil, was around $200 however, when I saw the privately placed ad for the one installed in the Lincoln online I checked Summits online catalogue to compare current pricing. At that time they no longer listed the Jacobs units but had replaced them with a Summit-branded unit.

Cortcomp wrote: "EDIT: After reading this, i saw it came off as kind of annoyed or angry. Definitely not the case, and it's all opinion. Not looking to insult anyone.

Just saying that when it comes to spending money or recommendations, we should stick to what we can measure, not what "seems" or "feels" better to us, as that can be misleading."

In the same spirit and without rancour or ill-feeling I'd like to point out that the engine in my 55 Pat was rebuilt professionally incorporating all of the top-end oiling modification recommendations from this forum and both Packard clubs then available. After timing, tuning and setting the transmission shift-points myself, again using tech-tips from this forum, it was placed in daily use which included daily trips all over the Orlando metro area and being used for three years to inspect property insurance claims all over the state of Florida and parts of Georgia and Alabama at real highway speeds (NOT 65 mph). It started with its original electrical, ignition and fuel-delivery systems intact and gradually acquired Edelbrock carburettor, alternator, a modern air-conditioning system, radial tires and, first, the Pertronix and then the Jacobs multi-spark ignition systems.

I spent, from about the age of six or so, the first twenty years of my life around, under and in motor vehicles built between 1935 and 1965 driving, occasionally racing, building, rebuilding, maintaining and servicing them with whatever was at hand and modifying them as required and necessary. Most of this was done in someone's garage, driveway or sometimes on my back in the dirt in an alleyway. That having been established, each modification done to the Packard improved its performance, ease of use, dependability or serviceability in some way - else I wouldn't have done them or would have undone them if they hadn't worked out. I have way more time than money. Some things were done according to my personal preferences (I was throwing away 4CG carburettors and replacing them with AFBs or Hollys when they still came new on vehicles) but even those were done with an eye to the next caretaker of my car after I'm done with it being able to return it to original configuration if desired (the Rochester, and everything else that has come off the car, is in the shed, fully rebuilt, in its box).

I have intentionally and carefully avoided arguing with experts for nearly all of my life. Many of them are so well educated and know so much more than those of us who actually have to use their services and products in the sometimes limited circumstances of our normal, everyday lives that they are sometimes hard, if not impossible, to communicate with.

As with everyone else, I do what my experience and my circumstances dictate and report the results as I see them. I reiterate: Cold starts are faster, the car can be started and driven out of the driveway with little to no warm-up and fuel mileage improved from an overall average, with information compiled over a twelvemonth period, from 13 mpg to 15 mpg but I don't have an electronic diagnostic analyser or a dyno - and wouldn't have time to use them if I had.

That's all I can tell you with certainty. I love this forum and appreciate any and all information, whether technical, anecdotal or professional, posted here.

Let's try this one more time, Lloyd. I've already gotten a couple of PMs asking me which Jacobs ignition should be used.

An internet search and I quit counting at sixty (60) variations of the "Jacobs ignition." Since Jacobs has been bought by Mr. Gasket, the number of outlets and the number of Jacobs products has gone way up. There are many, many choices. To help anyone considering following the recommendation to use a Jacobs ignition, can anyone answer these questions:

1. Which part number Jacobs ignition is being recommended?

2. Where can it be purchased today? Link to site?

3. How much does it cost today?

4. What is required to install the recommended system?

And BTW, some years back, I purchased and installed one Jacobs myself and installed others for customers. It's not rocket science, but it is always good for those trying to follow a recommendation to have all the facts and current price and availabiliy information.

jack vines

Loyd:

Many thanks for your report on your car and it's service level. Much to be admired.

Your increase in gas mileage may have been due to a combination of Edelbrock carb WITH e-ignition rather than just one of those mods by itself.

As for the Rochester carbs i'll have to agree that they are not my favorites at all. I prefer the WCFB but i'm sure the Edelbrock is probably superior to anything, i just havn't tried and Edelbrock yet.

Keep us posted on your ongoing service and mods/resto u do to your car.

What brand of radial tires are u using????? Are they local tire store tires or from vintage suppliers.

"I purchased and installed one Jacobs myself and installed others for customers. It's not rocket science, but it is always good for those trying to follow a recommendation to have all the facts and current price and availabiliy information."

Amen. Installing anything into a car where something isn't exactly like the directions say (bolt isn't where it's supposed to be, polarity of the car is reversed, etc.) and panic can break out. I spent 45 minutes double checking that the pertronix in the 50 was connected properly and that the coil was connected properly.

For whatever it's worth (and as Randy Berger often reminds, us, it's worth exactly what your paid for it), here's my take and experience on Pertronix in my 56 Caribbean.

I don't find changing points and condensor every 10,000 miles or so a chore, in fact I rather enjoy it. And to do it properly I always remove the distributor so I can clean and lubricate the centrifugal advance mechanism and the breaker plate swivel, something that is very likely to be neglected if you install electronic components. But on the Carib I couldn't remove the distributor easily w/o a slide-hammer such as is shown in the shop manual, and to install points hanging over that fender is not my idea of joy. Thus I installed Pertronix. I noticed no change in power, gas mileage (about 14 with the dual quads on the highway), or ease of starting (always starts almost instantly). That said, with points the change in timing and dwell as the rubbing block and tungsten contacts wear, degrades so slowly it's usually imperceptible until such time as you installed new points and retimes. To me at least, that's probably the only significant advantage of the Pertronix unit.

"To me at least, that's probably the only significant advantage of the Pertronix unit."

For sure. Price, ease of use are the only points i would champion. I don't think there's been a MPG change or power change. I think those limitations are in the mechanical design of the flathead 8 motor more than the ignition system.

"But on the Carib I couldn't remove the distributor easily w/o a slide-hammer such as is shown in the shop manual, ..."

Hmmmm. That sent me running to the 55-56 service manual. I looked under Electrical section (distributor) and engine section but could find no reference to use of a slide hammer to remove the distributor..

ok. So those of u running the e-ignition WITHOUT points used in the circuit and regardless of brand, what do u do when the control module goes bad AND u're stuck out on the side of the road somewhere??????

Do u carry an extra control module for emergency roadside repair or what???? What does an extra control module cost?????

I carry a set of points and condenser in the glove box. About a 10 minute chore to convert back from Pertronix.

BTW, you are right about the picture showing a slide hammer being used to free the distributor, yet I know I've seen it somewhere, perhaps in a Service Counselor or TSB. Next time I see it, I'll scan and post. What held the distributor in place was an accumulation of carbon-like oil residue that had sort of sealed the larger upper flange on the distributor lower housing. Once cleaned, no further issues.