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I've had no real dealings with Mr. K. When I read other members comments, I can't but wonder if it's a personality conflict, a genuine disagreement, maybe a misunderstanding on procedure or something much deeper. I do question any name calling.

I do know that his forum absolutely does not accept any modification information and my answer to one of those questions and entire thread was deleted promptly. I also believe that the no mod info is stated in one of the rules. Maybe he is heavy handed but maybe there are rules laid down by others he has to follow--I don't know.

Having said that, I still have respect for his abilities as a webmaster and how he has presented, kept more or less current, & maintained PAC's site. When comparing to some others (PI being one), the effort truly shows--as does BigKevs. I only hope the next one does as well.

Having been delegated to update & keep current material on a site my company allots for our zone which is mostly cut, paste & link stuff into a template, I can only have the greatest respect and admiration for the people that do the code & present such interactive and multi-optioned sites such as this, PAC, AACA etc from scratch AND KEEP THEM WORKING!! It takes a lot of time.

"maybe a misunderstanding on procedure or something much deeper. I do question any name calling."

Yeah. That's right.

The problem here is that there are but a few of us here like BH,P53,and myself that can go back to the old ClassicCar.com days. THAT'S when it really all started. SOMEONE (and i really don't remeber exactly who it was) showed up from one of the clubs or vendors CLAIMING to be the ClassicCar.com administrator and told us to stop discussing mods and X-ref parts. Threatening,as admistrator, to delete the Packard forum of ClassicCar.com if we did not stop discussing mods etc. I actualy thot it was for real UNTIL the REAL ClassicCar .com administrator showed up to reveal and rebuke the imposter.

Up until that point i don't remeber ANY negative posts related to any clubs or vendors. IN FACT we never new that there was any kind of ClassicCar.com administrator at all until the imposter from one of the clubs showed up.

ANyone can think anything they want about me or Packard53 or the others. WE DON"T CARE!!! WE are the ones that pioneered OPEN Packard discussion beginning at ClassicCar.com. Before that it was just some arm chair drivel.

So the clubs have made your Packard great. Congratulations. What ever it takes. But there are those of us who CAN keep out Packards on the road without the clubs. WE are NOT going to put up with anyone threatening our free speach about Packards. I have NO respect for anyone that tries. And they don't have to have any for me.

I have thought for a while about whether to dignify one of the posts in this thread with a response. I can put up with a little occasional bickering and differences of opinion; after all I don't have to read it if I don't want to, and sometimes different views expand our horizons. And although I'm a purist on my cars (both of which are drivers, one Classic and one NC), I can understand that some people want to modify their cars, and I actually find some of it technically interesting and clever. But I have absolutely ZERO respect and tolerance for people that liken others to one of the worst war criminals of all time, and neither should anyone else. Hopefully we'll see no more of that!

I have been away most of the day. Concerning the first part of my post concerning Katz was nothing more than satire.

But in some ways both have some things in-commom. They both spread propaganda and both have tried to alter the true .

I have seen Katz try to alter subject matter in two different forums. In the Classics forum he did so in the Classics forum by misrepresentation.

In the AACA forum he tried in conjunction with Peter G to have any talk about the 1965 Packard V12 matter shut down. Katz did this in an email to Peter G stating that anything concerning the 1965 Packard V12 story should be stopped as it was a PAC matter only, and shouldn't be talked about in the AACA Packard forum.

Because of his attempted actions in both forums, and my talk with him in 2001 about his actions in the Classics forum, I have no time for the man.

I stand by my statement that with him stepping down as PAC webmaster, that it will be no great lose.

John F. Shireman

Quote:

Wow you really make me feel like an oldtimer! I have been keeping Packards on the road without joining a club since the 1950's. That was about 50 years before the internet and classiccar.com came upon the scene. Congratulations that you also can keep your Packard on the road without a club. Did you ever try it without the internet ?

As for my "Hitler and Stalin" comparisons, well, they were nothing more than a satirical attempt at humor, of which I regret that it pissed some people off. Perhaps this would have been more appropriate??:



This is more suiting a satirical style anyway.

I think what everyone's saying that opposes certain moderators and administrators on various sites is that if you don't conform to their rigid standards, they delete your posts, ban you, and talk schitt on you behind your back in their "Administrator's Forums". I have seen this firsthand on the AACA website, but I never spent any time anywhere else that has been mentioned here.

That's what's enjoyable about this website in particular, we have virtually complete freedom to be honest about people and vendors, without having your post be deleted. This is a lot bigger thing than most of you realize.

And besides, not being able to post modifications to any make of car is pure BS, plain and simple. All this does is help to people who sell "original parts", which most of the time are nothing more than a part that anyone can go buy at the local parts store if you research it enough. I have found several things like gaskets, seals, bearings, etc, that cost up to 10 times more from so-called Packard vendors which in all actuality is the EXACT SAME PART!!

So, you can spend your hard earned money how you see fit, but I like to stretch my dollar/pound/euro/rupee/krugerrand's the furthest I can. Don't know about the rest of you guys/gals out there.

Owen: I have always had a great interest in history. My two main interests are automobile history and WWII.

I have in my book library many volumes of books on WWII, and the same can be said of my DVD library. I can talk to any person on WWII at any level or any part part WWII you like. I know of the all the horrible things that the Japs and and German's did during WWII.

Hitler came to power in Germany because in a lot of ways he offered the German people a better way of life than they had before following the period after WWI. However that all changed in 1939.

John F. Shireman

John, I beg to differ. It all began to change shortly after he became Chancellor in 1933 especially but not exclusively if you were a Jew and so that is why some of us are repulsed by your comparisons.

In 1939 Hilter plunged the whole world into war, which realy changed things for average German and his way of life.

Hitler started effecting change in Germany long before 1933 for Jews and all German's.

John F. Shireman

I had the occassion to observe Katz in action at PAC's Dayton Nat'l Meet, and I wasn't really impressed with his vision of a club website. Yet, it didn't matter that much to me as I wasn't online at the time. When I did finally get connected, a few years later, I checked into the site. Having been involved with Packards for nearly 25 years by then, but with a focus narrowed to the V8s, there was very little at the site that I hadn't seen already eslewhere.

Although the PAC site had been pitched and designed to fish for new members, it was the Forum - IMHO - that seemed to hold the most promise for bringing people together. Yet, after a few weeks and a couple of nastygrams about verbotten topics of discussion, I found the "Packard Live Chat" at the old ClassiCar.com site, and I had no intention of looking back.

Now, if a website has a bunch of rules that some people won't agree with and those people go set up camp elsehwere because of those rules, you'd like to think that would be the end of it.

However, it doesn't sit too well with me when the webmaster of the former website comes into someone else's website and starts telling people what they should and should not be talking about. After one of his episdoes, I had a few more words for Katz via e-mail, but have had nothing further to say to him since. Yet, I laughed my ass off when ClassicCar.com's webmaster stepped in after Katz publicly threatened to have the CC website shut down. The only thing worse would be going behind someone's back and trying to do stuff like that.

Frankly, I don't care what becomes of PAC's website or the club itself - as I let my membership lapse a few years ago and have no intention of joining again. If someone who's a member of PAC doesn't want anything to do with me because of that position, it's no skin off of my nose.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to contribute in any way that I can to help make PackardInfo the #1 place for Packard enthusaists to freely exchange thoughts and experiences and help keep the Packard name on the road.