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Driver's door window removal
#1
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I have a crack in the driver's roll-up window of my '39 Six. Oddly enough, it is from a bird flying into the car and frantically trying to exit. Hard as I find this to believe, a friend with a '46 Ford told me a bird had gotten into his car and taken out ALL the windows! I guess the glass is extraordinarily brittle in 70-80 year old cars.

I am unsure of how to remove the glass. There are two triangular shaped openings in the inner door skin, one small and one quite large - looking like the window could be tilted and manipulated out through there. Or does the guide frame have to be 'opened up', the window detached from the bottom at the crank frame and the glass lifted out the top?

I have the luxury of recent restoration; the door panels are new, and all the hardware securing the crank mechanism to the inner door panel boasts shiny new bolts, so I am hoping the disassembly isn't too arduous, but I would really appreciate the 'cook's tutorial' on the procedure.

Thanks to any and all responders.

Posted on: 2017/3/9 14:42
'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!' Henry Ford.
1939 Packard Six, Model 1700
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#2
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Don Shields
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Can't say I have direct experience on a 1939 but have removed glasses from a 1930 726 and a 1956 Clipper. Both window regulators were remarkably similar, so your '39 is probably just like these were. Of course the interior window garnish molding (note that Packard spelled that as moulding, at least in the '20's and '30's), window and door handles, and interior door trim panel all need to be removed. With the window lowered, reach in through the opening in the interior door panel and pop the window regulator arm out of the slot in the metal door glass bottom channel. Tilt/rotate the window glass-channel assembly until the glass slips out of the side channels and pull the glass upwards in this vertical position, tilting the glass towards you to clear the top of the door window opening frame. Installation is the reverse of the above procedure. It is usually not that difficult a task, just make sure you have a firm grip on the glass as it is being removed.

Posted on: 2017/3/10 23:47
Don Shields
1933 Eight Model 1002 Seven Passenger Sedan
1954 Convertible
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#3
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HH56
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To take the arm out of the slot in the bottom glass support there is usually a clip of some type at the end of the pin to keep it in the slot. Some models use a hairpin clip sliding in a groove on the pin and I have also seen a disc like item which has a sort of slot for the groove and a bent over spring like flap that fits over the end of the pin to retain the disc. Both are under some tension and may take a bit of help with a pair of channel locks to compress the regulator arm into the slot while you reach behind the glass and remove the clip. After the clip is removed, there is generally a steel washer next to the clip and two leather washers -- one leather on either side of the metal slot. Other regulators may have a cup shaped washer and spring assy on the arm side and leather on the back side next to the steel. Be sure to apply some white grease or a synthetic water resistant lube to the slot and leather or cup washer when you reinstall the glass.

Posted on: 2017/3/11 0:26
Howard
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#4
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Dave Brownell
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On a related note, how many of you have cracked the glass in your Packard by an unintended slam of the door? By now, it has happened a third time in my three cars, so I'm quickly learning how easily it can happen.

A few weeks ago, at a Packard board meeting, I mentioned my glass plight and got all sorts of commiserating comments from fellow club members. Our club president, who has had family Packards since the mid-1940s said that it happened all the time in the 40-50s, and not just to their Packards. He noted that such accidents were rare when the glass was fully up and tight. It happened more frequently when the window was halfway down, and sometimes when fully lowered. From hard experience, he and family learned that a gentle closing was the surest way to avoid glass replacement, but a gust of wind or a stranger at a car show could easily cause it to happen again. He said that lots of cars in the 40-50's had similar fates, probably caused by loosening window regulator hardware striking the glass when it was down. Driver's doors, subject to much more regulator wear, had looser regulators, hence they broke more frequently than other glass. Makes sense to me. All three of mine had driver's side glass damage done. One sedan and two hardtops.

One has already been replaced, and while the glass was being cut, I had a second cut, just in case for the second 56 hardtop. Not a month later, someone slammed the door on that car at a car show, and history was repeated. The 1950 sedan was done by me, with no excuses made.

The first hardtop now has a bit of padding wrapped around the regulator arm, to do what I can to prevent yet another cracking. So far, so good, but I am careful and have warned others about thoughtless door closing. Seems like only the Packards at my house are having these issues, but we're being mindful with the rest. Thank goodness Packard used only flat laminated glass that can be cut locally.

Posted on: 2017/3/11 9:13
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#5
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HH56
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There were a couple of service bulletins re glass breakage. IIRC, one on the V8s has to do with a weld on the rear runner channel breaking and letting the channel move sideways so the glass hits the regulator. The other which only affected the hydraulic window models was the regulator top being able to move and strike the glass . The way the long non hydraulic arms are supported at the regulator end and the inner door panels having sort of an oil can bottom action at times, conceivably those arms could also move and strike the glass when the door is slammed. The padding sounds like a possible option for that possibility. There is another specifically for 41-50 Clipper based bodies re loose channels on the bottom, rivets extending thru the felt channel, bent tie bar between the two channels and something about clips.

One other possibility on some models is with the retainer or screws that holds the arm rest and door panel securely attached to the door metal inner panel. If the clip leg that slips over the slot in the panel is bent out it can conceivably extend far enough the glass could strike it if there is any movement -- as it could too long a screw holding the arm rest.

Posted on: 2017/3/11 9:58
Howard
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#6
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Many thanks for the instructions and the sage advice on 'door slamming'. I must admit that I don't like pulling on the inner door handles and usually open the window and close the door with a hand over the window sill - obviously this comes with some downsides I wasn't aware of. The Packard setup is lacking, in my opinion, in this regard as there is no real designated door 'pull' to draw the door inward, other than the pot metal handles. I noticed one picture where someone had installed pull straps under the arm rests. I have even thought of redesigning the armrests to incorporate a 'pull' but want to keep things as original as possible. Definitely a conundrum.
One last question on the window removal: when pulling the glass up, how does it come out of the track, once it is all the way up?? Is there some way to undo the vent window side track, open the vent window and tilt the guide forward at the top so the glass 'runs out of track' as it comes up?
I have a local glass guy who says he will cut the safety glass for about $35 ($22USD) which seems pretty reasonable and he also said the new glass is a lot less brittle and not as prone to cracking??? Let's hope.
Again, thanks for the help!!

Posted on: 2017/3/11 14:31
'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!' Henry Ford.
1939 Packard Six, Model 1700
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#7
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HH56
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It depends on how the side channels are fastened to the door. On some there is a bracket on the ends of the channels which fasten to the door sheetmetal and can be unscrewed. That allows one channel end to be moved aside enough to clear the glass. On others the side channels are held in a separate welded frame assy which has the bottom ends tied together by a spreader bar. That bar will not allow any motion on the channels.

I can't speak directly to your year but on later years which have the channels tied together, the lower window stop removes. Once that is out and the regulator arm pin is out of the slot in the window guide the window will be able to be held and lowered down into the bottom of the door enough that with some maneuvering you can get the glass out of the channels and turn it 90 degrees. If the door is relatively thin (like the 47 rears), the arm and pin being out of the slot may interfere with the thick bottom guide as you try to lower it. You may have to crank the arm as if you were raising the window so the pin gets to the top of the glass and will allow the glass to move down past the mechanism. Once it is turned then lift it up and out the opening. One thing to be aware of is on some windows the slot the regulator arm pin fits into is offset toward one end of the glass. If yours is offset, make sure you take note of which end the slot is on before removal so you can get the glass back in the door without having to pull it out again and turn it around.

Installation is just the reverse. Put glass in the opening making sure of orientation and lower it to the bottom where you can turn it 90 degrees again and guide it into the channels. Raise it up enough to reinstall the arm in the slot and then do the adjustment for the bottom stop.

Posted on: 2017/3/11 16:04
Howard
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#8
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I just wanted to update this post with my findings in case anyone else is, or will be, removing a roll-up window from a '39 junior car. I approached it thinking I could get the window out without removing the vent window/frame. This is not the case, although there are only 3 screws to free it up, and once removed, the side channel drops out the bottom. I had been told that, on some cars, the pivot arm is held in place with a removable clip or pin, but in this case, it is fixed, with a keyhole opening in the opposite end of the guide slot. As the window is lifted up through the door sill opening, the glass can be turned and the window bottom slides to the opposite end of it's slot travel and the pin on the raising arm pops out the keyhole, thus freeing the window. I know it is sometimes hard to visualize instructions like this (or at least, it is for me!) but I guess the main thing here is knowing the vent window (frame, window and crank-drive assembly) all come out as one piece, and the rest becomes obvious as things start 'coming loose' after that.

The replacement window was $30 and the guy did a beautiful job of grinding the edges, as well as matching the corner-arcs perfectly. Now I just have to get it all back together without hurting anything and move on to the cracked window in the driver's side rear door!!!

Posted on: 2017/3/14 18:02
'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!' Henry Ford.
1939 Packard Six, Model 1700
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#9
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Brians51
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You are lucky to have been able to repair your mishap. My driver side window is cracked too, but cant even get at it. Had to give up before something broke. So I live with a cracked window

Posted on: 2017/3/14 18:19
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Re: Driver's door window removal
#10
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To Brian's51... I was at a standstill with trying to figure out how to get mine apart, and I noticed that someone, at some point in time, had cut the entire inner door skin out, and then welded it back together. A first-rate welding job, I must say; after being painted, it was almost indiscernible. For a while I thought, 'oh no!, is this the only way to get at it?', and then went the vent window removal route. Would that be an option on your car? Nowadays with plasma cutters and arc welders, etc., it can sure be done with a minimal amount of heat.

Posted on: 2017/3/14 18:31
'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!' Henry Ford.
1939 Packard Six, Model 1700
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