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My introduction to the AACA was, essentially, concurrent with my first visit to Fall Hershey, way back in 1978. That event - as well as may other facets of the hobby - certainly helped fuel my interest in old cars. However, as I learned more about the AACA over the years, the less interested I became in joining that club.

Meanwhile, about ten years ago, I discovered the AACA's online forum and thought I'd give things a second look. However, that site has become too restrictive - really not much different than PAC's forum, which I stopped using a decade ago (after only a matter of weeks).

With too much change for the sake of change and too many self-serving rules, it is no surprise to me that the old Packard DF has become such a "snooze fest". I very rarely post there anymore. In time, I expect that site will be used only by AACA members.

The problems there likely go beyond the webmaster and club prez, but point to a greater, longstanding, mindset. Alas, the "old guard" will never truly understand "the graying of the hobby".

PackardInfo has been a much needed breath of fresh air in the hobby.

I have no personal grudges against the AACA management as others seem to do, and regard their site as a tool like any other - it's there to use if you wish. Regardless of the politics which may or may not come into play, there are some very clever and well-informed responders over on AACA though often in forums other than the Packard area, who have been sources of terrific information and recommendations, on sourcing, metallurgy, machining, and other topics. I still visit it occasionally just for that reason though I rarely post there.

I never let things go far enough at the AACA to get personal (in my own case), but I don't find the management to be very even-handed in its administration of the site.

On the other hand, I'm not much for sites like H.A.M.B., either - though I'm sure one might find some good information there, on ocassion, as well.

Perhaps this is not too far off the original post. I noted a negative comment about the PAC Forum some years back. The PAC Forum has been restarted recently with a new Forum Master who should be familiar to folks here. From what I have seen he is doing an excellent job. So, although I would encourage folks to post here, posting at the PAC Forum should be considered as well. The more, the merrier.
kens53clip
Ken Dunning

Quote:
Just one?

Seriously, PAC's previous webmaster had his supporters within the club, but if you talk to enough people, you'll find he had plenty of detractors as well - and not just a few rogues who are vocal online. While I'm sure that webmaster had to live by some rules that were not of his making, the way that he enforced those rules left a lot to be desired.

As such, the new Forum Master (is that different than the webmaster?) could have a tough row to hoe, but I wish him luck.

Ken: Over the years there has been more than one complaint about the PAC forum. Katz was a pompous control freak that still leaves a foul smell. Which it turn leaves a mighty big hill for the new forum master of PAC to climb.

The difference in posting in this forum and the PAC forum is that here we are free here to talk about anything concerning this hobby we want. I don't know if things have changed at the PAC forum but it was controlled with a very heavy hand by Katz.

Try copying information from the PAC web site nearly impossible. Here everything that is donated is put into pdf form for all to look at read and down load. This is were the knowledgeable Packard people hang out.


John F. Shireman

Guys,
I don't know anything about Katz and never claimed to know anything about Katz. I was and am talking NOW. Katz is no longer in charge. Try the Packard Forum NOW. See who is in charge NOW and how it is run NOW. Then give me your judgment, if you like. But by all means, continue to post here.
kens53clip
Ken Dunning

I take Owens stance as well.
Packard53 takes it another step when he says: "... here we are free here to talk about anything concerning this hobby we want."

The fundenental concept of an OPEN Internet Discussion group is exactly Johns statement. The problem i believe is that very few webmasters or their bosses fully understand it. If they did understand (in view of "negative issues") then the websites would NOT be open the general public.

Cetrtainly, on rare occasions some extreme unwelcome posts or guests could show up. That can happen anywhere at any time. Even at ones own front door. In that case i doubt that any "regulars" would take issue with the Webmaster for any actions Webmaster takes. Otherwise the Webmaster gets some heat.

An OPEN internet discussion group is NOT a Sunday School Class. It's an OPEN discussion. If the the website can't handle openness then they need to make it a private website. BUT they know if it becomes private then traffic will surely slow down.

Then there is the advertisers that webmasters worry about. Advertisers have to understand it too. Webmasters have to understand that they might loose advertisers. Make it a private website and they loose advertisers.

The problem is that most Website Owners really do not have a good grip on the facts of Internet life. They can not change it or control it without loosing. But they think they can.

The Internet as a whole, is still relatively young. WE ALL have learning to do in view of it as a communication vehicle.

Ken -

I don't think anyone is spurning your invitation to check out a new and improved forum at the PAC site. However, you have to understand that future expectations are colored by past experience, and there were plenty of bad ones. If things are truly different now, people will come around, but it's gonna take time.

Heck, I was rather skeptical about another Packard site when BigKev announced the launch of PackardInfo. Yet, look at was has been accomplished here in just a few years, and there's plenty more in the works.

Do I detect an effort to goad me into a "statement" on the revived PAC forum? I won't make one, let's let actions speak for themselves. No, I'm not the webmaster at PAC. It (the moderator position) was not a job I asked for, but one that I felt needed to be filled so I somewhat reluctantly agreed when I was approached.

I hope to be as light-handed and open-minded as Big Kev has been here, kind of like an absentee landlord, and plan on continuing to work on both forums w/o a favorite - there's room for both in my opinion. I'm certainly looking forward to some of you experts here helping with good advice to queries that are posted on PAC.

Among the few things that could possibily provoke me are vulgar and crude personal attacks. We've seen a few of these over the years, including a few religious slurs, and one is one too many. We're entitled to our likes and dislikes, but we're here to enjoy each other and our hobby, and civility should rule.