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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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Don - I don't think those green globs will come out of the bleeder valve during a flush. The only way to remove it would be to disassemble the wheel cylinder. And I should clarify we did flush the whole system, just not with a handy tool. Did it the old fashioned way.

TxGoat - I think you're right. Looking closely at the picture of the cylinder bore it looks to have a brass sleeve. I am not sure if this is the only cylinder that was sleeved. None of the others were wet when I checked them, but I didn't look closely to see if they had existing sleeves. I didn't know to look for it.



Any thoughts on the fuel pump?

-Kevin

Posted on: 2023/4/19 17:10
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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7 hg sounds low to me, but I don't know the specification. Gasoline weighs about 75% as much as water, so a vacuum of 7" hg might raise gasoline about 10" assuming no line friction. That's not much more than the difference in elevation of the top of the fuel in a full tank and the fuel pump, with the car on a level surface.

I'd think the fuel pump would pull more vacuum than that on a closed line of low volume, and I'd think it would reach a higher reading after a few strokes and then hold it for at least a few seconds or longer after the pump stopped operating. Of course, any minute air leak anywhere in the plumbing, or through the pump diaphragm, the pump valves, or in the gauge would work to limit the maximum vacuum produced and would quickly dissipate it when the pump stopped. If your fuel pump was rebuilt with old stock parts, the diaphragm may be porous or cracked. It's also possible that one of the pump valves is leaking or sticking, or that it isn't seated properly in the pump body, which could allow leakage past it. Gasoline can be difficult to pick up with a pump, and any small problem can reduce the pump's effectiveness or prevent it from working at all. Sometimes the puickuip line inside a gas tank will devolp a pinhole leak above the level of the gasoline. This will cause no end of headaches with hot stalling, hard starting after sitting, etc. Any air leak anywhere on the suction side of the pump all the way back to the tank and inside the tank will cause these issues, especially in warm weather.

Posted on: 2023/4/19 18:22
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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humanpotatohybrid
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in. Hg is inches of mercury, not water, so 7 in. Hg is about 95 in. water or 130 in. gasoline.

Put another way, 7 in. Hg is about 3½ PSI which is pretty normal pressure after the fuel pump, so I would think it would be adequate before.

What looks strange to me is how quickly it loses vacuum.

Posted on: 2023/4/19 19:13
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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If it's 7" of mercury that should be adequate. However, I think it should hold vacuum for at least a while in the suction side if everything is absolutely tight, just as it would normally hold some pressure on the discharge side assuming the carb bowl is full and everything is tight.

Posted on: 2023/4/19 19:26
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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Another thought:

To measure maximum vacuum the fuel pump can develop, I'm pretty sure you would need to have the discharge side open to the atmosphere. Otherwise the diaphragm will load up and move very little.

Posted on: 2023/4/19 19:36
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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It appears my post from last night got deleted in the website transfer.

I had a minute to test the suction on the fuel pump again. This time I disconnected the outlet side of the pump, and put teflon tape on the gauge connections to be sure there wasn't a leak there (I know, no teflon tape for fuel, but for a temporary test I figured it wouldn't hurt).

Pump climbed quickly to 15 inHg, and once stopped stayed at 12 inHg for several minutes until I disconnected the gauge. Video below.

Can I assume my fuel pump is working correctly?





-Kevin

Posted on: 2023/4/20 9:37
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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Ross
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Yes.

Posted on: 2023/4/20 9:41
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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Thanks Ross!

Last night I pulled the fuel filter out and replaced it with a length of flex fuel line. The old fuel hose that was connecting the filter to the steel line was very stiff and brittle. Glad I replaced it. I'll probably replace the other rubber sections as well when I get more line.

I tightened all the connections and put some fuel safe thread sealant on the connection to the suction side of the pump. The pump really seems to pull now. A quick test seemed to be fine, but I'll do to test more once I get the front wheels back together and on the car.

Currently I'm running no filter, which I don't love, but I'm not sure where I should put one now.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2023/4/21 18:04
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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The fan belt from Gates, that I thought would fit, turned out to be too short. I have a new one coming that is two inches longer. It should give me enough room to adjust as needed.

I pulled the starter to investigate why the car was getting increasingly harder to start. About 50% of the time the starter would click once and nothing would happen. Pulling the cover off and using a tool to slightly spin the armature would allow it to start the next try.

I found that the commutator had two areas with significant burns and pitting. I replaced the brushes I could access (two of them require soldering on the field coils....not likely to happen), and then polished the commutator the best I could.

Speaking to a friend who helped with the engine rebuild, he recommends rebuilding the started completely. Apparently the burns are indications of brush hop, and will likely get worse. Possibly the armature is out of round and/or the bushings need to be replaced. I'll be heading to his place next weekend to tackle it.

Where do I find bushings for this thing?

-Kevin

Attach file:



jpg  Burned commutator.jpg (135.24 KB)
1059_645b22eb21842.jpg 975X1300 px

jpg  Old brushes still have some meat.jpg (109.17 KB)
1059_645b22f73c7cf.jpg 768X1024 px

jpg  Polished commutator.jpg (97.43 KB)
1059_645b2301000e1.jpg 1024X768 px

Posted on: 2023/5/9 23:52
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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That starter probably does need a complete rebuild. I would want to find out what the original diameter of the commutator was. Yours looks undersized to me, like it might have been cut down several times. You may need a new or better used armature to get proper brush contact with the commutator.

A really good starter will perform well and last a very long time if it is not abused.

Some types of starter abuse include:

Using a battery that is undersized, in poor condition, or chronically undercharged.

Using battery cables that are undersize or in poor condition.


Beyond that, operating the starter for more than 10 to 15 seconds at a time is harmful.

The engine should start immediately, and if it does not, don't continue cranking for more than 10 to 15 seconds without allowing the starter to rest for a minute to allow time for heat to dissipate.

Keep the engine in tune and in good condition so that it will start quickly and keep running once it is started. The distributor needs to be timed correctly and the automatic advance needs to work correctly.

Carburetor, choke, and manifold heat all need to work properly.

Using 12 volts on a 6 volt starter is abusive.


Junky starters are hard on batteries, too.

Posted on: 2023/5/10 8:20
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